Hey attorney hackers welcome to this Week’s podcast episode so i know a lot Of you guys are interested in building Websites but not a lot of you are very Interested in the beginning phases of Building a website which tend to be a Lot of work for very little action very Little ranking and very little revenue To be honest and so one way to skip These first one to two years of the life Of an authority site is to actually just Buy one that exists already that is Ranking for some keywords makes maybe Some money but it’s not necessarily the Most important is mostly the age of Buying some of the links etc so that you Can get going get something to get some Content and get the results really Quickly the problem is that the Marketplace is sometimes a little bit Deceiving and you need to be very Careful when you buy a website to make Sure you’re buying exactly what you Think you’re buying and in this episode We’re going to be talking about exactly That we’re going to be talking about What you need to look for when you’re Buying a domain when you’re buying a Website what are the common tricks that Might be played on you or things that You might just be missing when you’re Buying a website as well as share our Personal opinions of whether we buy some Websites with some attributes or some
Others so let’s get started and enjoy This episode Hi everyone welcome back to the atari Hacker podcast in today’s episode we are Going to be talking about seven things To look out when buying your website so A lot of people decide to not start a Website from scratch but rather buy a Website mostly because usually the first Few years of a website are failure and Eventful like they tend to take lots of Work and you don’t really get much uh Money much return you don’t rank very High initially uh the first year i tend To tell people that you make more money Working at mcdonald’s uh and i think That is a good It’s a good analogy to like tell you It’s not a get-rich-quick method but After that it tends to be better so one Way people skip that is they buy Websites but The market of buying and selling Websites is not Maybe as transparent as we would like it To be And When you are a buyer especially if You’re a first-time buyer especially if You’ve never built websites before if You don’t have much experience running An established website You could Make a lot of mistakes that end up in
You buying the wrong website and we Wanted to make that podcast for you guys To avoid that uh it’s not worse than Like buying a house it’s the same when People buy a house right can people can Also uh you know buy the wrong house buy A house with defects it’s been hidden by The seller whatever basically same thing Here so i got mark here with me today How’s it going mark uh going good The smoothest how’s it going uh Transition ever um so let’s just jump Into this i don’t want to go inside Stories or anything now i just want to Get going onto that i think the first Thing that i would question is the way Sites are valued so I you know i thought we’re gonna sound Old again but you know when we started In this market Sites would be sold for like around 20 Times um monthly revenue something like This Monthly profit yeah uh Today i mean i actually before we Prepare this podcast you know we always Go and check the temperature of the Market etc i went on empire flippers nfe International and it seems to be that 40 To 50 times revenue not profit Uh Is the is kind of like the way sites are Being valued these days which Is interesting because it’s kind of like
The peak of what it’s been that’s like i Haven’t seen 60 x or something Very much for content sites yet i mean We see more than that even for sales Products but for content sites not so Much uh to give you an example of a Listing i was looking at i was on empire Flippers is a site that is mostly Monetized by ads in the sports and Fitness niche and it’s The multiple is 52x so it’s making 30 000 per month it was created in 2019 and It’s on sale at 1 million 548 000 Uh for that site uh which is quite Interesting because I’m i’m looking at this like and Comparing it to other forms of Investment right so apart from real Estate in the current state of the Economy at the time of which we’re Recording which is august 2022 right now Um a lot of other investment assets have Peaked and went down a little bit so Like nothing you know the s p 500 is not At the peak of value anymore uh a lot of Like the bond stuff is not et cetera Pretty much everything so like the p Ratio of s p 500 went from 37 at the Peak to 21 right now crypto markets Cooled down a lot as well like we’re Definitely not at that peak Anymore yet the multiple for websites Is at the highest it’s ever been and It’s like it’s making me ask questions
As to like has the the value of websites Increased Or has the market not yet adapted to Maybe what more established investment Assets have been going towards to in the Last few months at least uh and it yeah I think there’s another interesting Dynamic that even before the whole Market crash um was was playing out and It was affecting valuations a lot and That’s just the nature of the market Being quite broker-centric Uh so when you want to sell a site There’s typically you know a handful of Top-tier brokers and plenty of smaller Ones beneath that that you’ll go to and The way that they can win your business Imagine you go to three brokers and you Get three Valuations you’re most likely going to Go with the one who gives you the Highest price and yeah we reckon you we Can sell your site for a million dollars If the others are like 700 600k you’re Probably going to go with the one that’s They can get it for a million and that’s Just The nature of the market that’s not Anyone trying to you know deceive you or Anything But it means that you are then in a Position where Uh it’s brokers are incentivized to give You a higher than realistic valuation
And then start walking things back After you come on board and you sign Sign up for you know six month excuse Exclusivity of listing And this is the same Uh concept which happens a lot in Um you know big boy finance world when When you have companies doing ipos and You know they’re looking for an Investment bank to help take them public They always over promise and then start Walking back say oh well actually Because your business is like this it’s Only worth this or it’s only worth this I spoke to someone who sold their site Uh Fairly recently towards the end of last Year and it was on the market for I think nine months And the reason being is that i think he Got promised quite a high valuation Initially and i remember at the time he Asked me about it and i said i don’t Think you’ll get that for it But he was very much of drawn by by that Price And then over time as nobody was Interested they started sort of knocking It down and when it got to a more Realistic multiple i think in this of Mid 40s Then You know it sold so i think this this Concept has been been perpetuating
Um in the industry for for a while it’s Led to these the situation where the Listing price or the initial listing Price on a lot of these platforms is Very very high you know just in case Maybe someone who doesn’t know any Better a newbie coming in the market Yeah so pay very close attention to not Only how much it listed at but if you’re Speaking to them like how much was it Initially listed at when you’re buying a Home One of the things you look for is was it Has have they reduced the price of the The home that can give you a lot of Indication about maybe all the other Buyers saw some problems with it or Maybe it was overvalued or or whatever Else so yeah pay very close attention to That Maybe how long has been on the market as Well that’s usually what i ask when i Visit like apartments and stuff exactly Uh And uh it tells you and usually like uh When you ask that to real estate agents At least they make a funny face when It’s been a while or something like they Basically know that they’re kind of like Getting cornered honestly i think it’s Happening to the side market it’s like Maybe your friends sold for like mid-40s But i would not be surprised if the Average was even lower now that the
Economy situation has gotten worse since The end of last year um And and there’s a lack of transparency Of data right with houses in most Countries um there’s a public registers Of how much each house sold for and you So you can actually see that data with Sites all you have is how much were they Listed for and then nothing you’ve no Idea what the final sale price uh went For so it’s not not very transparent in That in that sense it’s not just that But because interest rates are going up Quite fast these days like money is more Expensive and usually that means price Of big assets like that tend to go down With higher interest rates just because There’s less flowing money in the Economy it’s less accessible for other Things so you need to dedicate it Properly um but just to finish on that Point i actually made a poll on twitter I have no idea who voted they’re not Experts or anything necessarily but it Was quite interesting to see that 38.8 Percent of people voted too high 19.4 percent of people already too low And 41.8 so the majority voted just Right uh which uh which i guess they Disagree a little bit with us even Though they’re still more too high than Too low Uh maybe it’s too high but not too too High i guess
That would be that would be my reading In that all like people just that have a Website for server they’re too low People who want to buy websites but They’re too high and people who don’t Care about it just right you know i mean I mean that broadly aligns with the Sentiment i’ve heard from just talking To people and you know in our community And stuff people are if they see a good Deal or they see a good site at a fair Price they’ll they’ll go for it but the General perception is that most of what You see on broker sites on places like Flipper and and that’s how you pay for It to be a bit Overpriced yeah yeah it’s all off market And the private deal flow in these Situations where Um a lot of the the kind of persistent Buyers are making their money Yeah i agree uh let’s jump on the next Point which is going to be the over Dependence on a few pages and that’s Kind of like Not Unique to size the alpha cell most Websites get most of their traffic from A handful of pages like 5 10 15 twenty Pages something like this Um and so when you do the duty drones For a page i think You need to Over like go hardcore on
During the due diligence for these pages Specifically more than the entire Website because that’s where most of the Money comes from and the initial way You’re going to get your money back is The current revenue Of the website so you need to make sure That this is going to be stable for a While at least at least that hopefully At least you make your money back And after that you can maybe take more Risks etc but um Quite often Google kind of lags behind what should Be ranking and what’s ranking and that’s Usually when we see these big shuffles In call updates for example so like it’s Quite frequent a page with Much worse content or Much lower link matrix still ranks quite Well because historically it’s done well Even though the competitors have been Putting effort into doing something Better recently and so like i would try To catch these situations by going Through each page individually looking At the queues they rank for then looking At who else is ranking for i go in the Keyword um explorer in ahrefs and you Know at the bottom you have this graph Of like the evolution of the sub Position i tend to look at Yeah and i tend to look at like people Who are like slowly climbing up and
Looking at these pages making sure that They’re not on track to overtake me Especially when you’re higher rankings Like when you’re top one two three You know do losing one position if you Go from one to two or one to three like You can cut 50 plus yeah 50 of your income if that One page was like a big percentage of The site’s income you could be losing Like 20 30 Revenue not from a big core update or Something but just from like that one Page being knocked out and and and often Sites that are being sold are not being Worked on as actively as when they’re Like you know a current project of the Company that sells them which means it’s More prone to be knocked out by Competitors because if this has been on The market for six seven eight months Nobody’s really been looking at it as Closely as they have before It’s possible that these things happen So i would be quite careful but at the Same time as you do this I would like to also look at uh the top Pages that make the most money and i’ll Be uh doing some cute research as to Is there similar keywords i can write About so that i can expand uh on that so Like you know if you’re doing I don’t know if you’re ranking for like Best paintball guns maybe there’s no
Best paintball rifles page or something Or something it’s like something that is Very close um semantically and like in Terms of topic That you can write about that is also The same format so that you’re very Likely to rank high quickly and you are Basically evaluating the risks and the Potential upsets of your top pages Much more than the rest of the site i Would say because that’s really where The money comes up and that’s really Where your roi is going to come from so Yeah just pay more attention do pretty Much full qr research and audits for These pages then the rest of the site You can put a little bit less work into It basically give as much attention as Percentage of revenue uh a page Generates for the site I would also add to that that when You’re valuing a site for yourself to Say you know is it worth me buying it You really want to look at what they’re Making based on what they currently rank For not the kind of aspirational stuff Because you can come in and say oh yeah I could write all these pages and rank Rank for all this but you know it might Not might not happen so Don’t kind of Spend the money with the expectation That it’s going to grow you you need to Look at what’s actually happened so far
Yeah i agree Uh let’s jump on the next one and how Did you take this one yeah so the next One we’ll talk about is um hidden or External sources of revenue And i’ve heard multiple reports from Experience site buyers who have run into This issue when purchasing a site Basically what happens is you look at Their all you go through due diligence You know they see they have a ton of Organic traffic and um you know some Email traffic referrals whatever else And then you look at the revenue and Think oh yeah okay all this traffic’s Generating all this money great But if you don’t tie the actual revenue Being generated back to specifically to Say the organic traffic from google it Could be the case that there’s a lot of Sales coming Um through some other hidden source Which is not on the site I know one person had a situation where They bought a site and there was a ton Of sales coming from An external community and then when the Owner you know was no longer a part of It he was no longer a part of that Community um sales started to dip quite A lot as well so they weren’t really Buying or the the site was valuation was Being over inflated by these off-site Sales which didn’t continue after the
Purchase so you have to be really really Careful that also there can be cases Where the owner has a very strong Personal brand you know people are Following them personally And unless you work out you know a Specific deal where you can continue to To leverage their Presence or or they’re going to continue To you know help promote in a certain Way You can end up in a situation where You know you’ve just lost a really big Source of Of leads of sales of clicks of of what Whatever else And it’s just very very difficult to Actually Foresee that In in due diligence because if you think About an affiliate site If you look at uh if you if you go Through any due diligence for a site List that i am private person How do you know that the people buying From amazon are those who have come from Google you can sort of map it back And say okay so how many people came From google look at analytics how many People clicked on my amazon links okay Cool of the people clicking on my amazon Links watch my ctr but you know you may Have 90 percent of the organic traffic Clicking on on amazon links and
And making you know 10 of the sales Whereas all of them are coming from some External source community social media Reddit wherever else and they’re making You know the majority of the sales and It just kind of skews the results quite A lot so you have to be I would argue for an amazon site it’s Unlikely but for Yeah um For like uh photo yeah i was just Thinking like this example is like if Someone bought a toy hacker Uh it’s typically the example we’re like Well we have seo traffic and People would like check that out and They’d value that et cetera But if someone took over atari hacker i Don’t think the courses would sell as Much initially at least Until they’ve proven themselves to the Community and all i think Recommendations convert as high because People Trust us because hopefully we’ve made Good enough recommendations in the past And all called out tools that we think Are not valuable for example things like That um but like if a completely new Face showed up They would need to under trust again it Basically resets to the community and They probably would be a little bit Defiant at the beginning because of that
Change you know like people tend to be a Little bit like that and so in that in That aspect like you couldn’t Count on making the same volume of like Revenue that we make As authority hacker if we were not here Personally anymore at least initially if You do a good job transitioning it can Be it can be doing okay but like that’s When i would like want to leverage us to Do transition podcasts traditional Videos etc like mixed content with us And them things like that like that kind Of stuff don’t worry we’re not selling Atari hacker but i think it’s a good Example Of there was something that could happen You know there was actually a this Happened in the industry there was a Site called niche hacks um which is sold Many many years ago like four or five Years not many years ago like it’s like Three four years ago It was 2017 2018 wasn’t it yeah maybe It’s like five years ago Uh we’re living in the future remember And yeah the whole transition there um That was good It wasn’t the it wasn’t done in the best Way and i think um they they kind of Lost out a bit from there so yeah it’s It’s difficult to to when when an owner Leaves who’s who’s kind of like base of Of the company so this can be a bit
Different the funny thing is the owner Like Never showed his face previously he was Like under this steward name and like Had a cartoon image basically Um now it’s basically the niche site Lady of blogs basically if you guys go On twitter um anyway They could have probably sold the Persona it would be fine because it Wasn’t the real name of the guide Uh so they probably should have Continued because if you look at the Site now they’ve lost pretty much Everything And they tried pretty hard like they did Videos and it was okay and the guy Seemed to kind of know what he was doing Um but i think it was too much change Too fast like he tried to make it a Brand new company and people didn’t buy Into this and um Yeah it’s quite difficult so like this Is the kind of issues like also in Finance for example uh that would be the Case like you know if you’re getting Financial advice from people that you’re Following and someone else takes over You’re unlikely to buy the stocks they Tell you to buy just because about the Business So and so that’s so that’s a problem but It’s not most i think most affiliate Sites that get seo traffic
It’s not as big of an issue but just be A little careful Um let’s talk about something to Consider though when you’re starting Your own site you know if you’re Positioning positions yeah as mark Webster or gailbretton.com yeah good Luck selling a brand it’s a lot harder Than you know some Uh when you’re creating this brand which Has its own kind of presence you know But even like attorney hacker like Reselling a tory hacker would be very Difficult it would require a multi-year Plan or something we’re not again we’re Not planning on that but like it’s it’s Still an interesting debate and our Thought to have that it’s like the way You build this it’s funny people want Authenticity they want this kind of Content etc but also makes it much more Difficult to pass on the business and Sell it so it’s kind of you need to find That balance between Authenticity and Scalability slash Passability you know like that you can Give it to someone else and uh It’s going to be a different answer for Each business that’s right but let’s Jump into the next point which is going To be uh tech stack so this one is Definitely going to apply to most Affiliate sites etc at sites that you’re
Going to buy and that is the most sites That you’re gonna buy they’re obviously Not brand new right they tend to be You know three four five years old i Would say something that would be the Majority of the range of sites you would Buy that have decent traffic Um maybe a little bit less but most of The time they’re built on tech that was Released at that time right so you’re Gonna buy the site that’s still built on Like older page builders uh whatever And or have not been updated in terms of Themes in terms of design instead of all Of that And and one thing that is Not only is going to be costing you in Terms of like side speed etc but that is Something that you know but quite often If you decide to maintain the site as is Because doing big technical challenges Can affect your rankings positively or Negatively but you’re gambling a bit you Just dropped a lot of money on that side Do i really want to gamble not sure you Know um Like one of the sites that we sold like A next case study site for tasks i can See they didn’t change anything because Of that because they were afraid of that Um but if you maintain that text stack Quite often you end up with aside a lot More effort to manage like uploading a New piece of content could be a lot more
Work could take a lot longer The medias are not optimized you need to Like record the images yourself whatever You can obviously do some changes behind The hood but quite often It could be it could be quite an issue In terms of like having to retrain your Stuff as well and to running into that Old tech stack and so on Could double the cost of uploading Articles that kind of stuff that could Mess up with your calculations of Profitability So i would be a little bit careful Both in changing the tech if the site is Ranking well And in Calculations of overheads of running all The tech stacks if you don’t want to Change it and it’s going to be a balance That you’re going to find personally i Like the idea of like probably running The site for a little bit Putting new content as it is and maybe a Year two year later going for a full Redesign with newtek uh and and getting Up to speed on that stuff because Let’s be honest every three four years i Think most sites should do a big refresh Of their tech stack these days if uh Otherwise it’s costing you in efficiency Quite a lot and i think it’s also worth Mentioning that it’s rare that you’ll Find a site that’s built well this
Building the way you want that’s the way You want it Because most sites just because they’ve Been for sale for a long period or They’ve been being built up for three Four or five years uh they’re built on Older technology you know the owners had Different ideas about you know the seo Or the content structure or whatever so They’re running on beaver builder you Know stuff like that it’s just like yeah Like these these old ones so yeah it’s It’s tricky it’s more tricky than it Sounds it’s going to affect you all it Sounds and from selling sites In the past i can see most people who Bought the sites and many of them were Quite experienced Did not dare doing big tech changes Which is uh which is quite interesting Yeah so the next thing i want to talk About is the team and specifically Stability around that so when a business Gets sold and the new owners come in There There’s a big point here where you’re at High risk of people leaving And for most websites who have a small Team with you know handful of writers Maybe one or two link builders One or two or three people leaving can Have a pretty catastrophic effect on you Know you continuing the The business the way it is you can
Always bring in new people but it’s Never going to be the same especially True With uh writers So you have what normally happens is That the buyer and the seller they work Closely together to Position this in front of the team to Communicate it to explain what’s going To happen they come up with a plan they Talk to each other and You know try and get everyone’s buy-in To to the whole sale Um but if the seller doesn’t have a good Relationship with the the team and it’s Very difficult to know this when you’re Buying a site in advance Then you can have issues with people Leaving or just choosing this point to Kind of move on We had a situation where we sold a site I saw the business And six months down the line about half The team basically like it’s gone yeah Yeah They went and and kind of there was it Was all drama like stole some clients And formed their own business and stuff We weren’t involved in in any other Um but it just goes to highlight you Know if you if you don’t get um the team On board when you’re buying a site you Can lose them initially or you know in The in the months
Months following So my advice in that situation is just Get ahead of it uh speak if you’re Buying a site speak to the owner in due Diligence trying to understand their Relationship with the team Try and talk to the team If you can In that phase like individually maybe One of the one or two the writers or any Key people And then get them on board very quickly I think I think empowering them and considering Their opinions on what should be done is Also quite important when they you come In you’re the owner but you have less Experience of the business than they do I think Respecting them and respecting that Uh goes a long way And uh it also goes to it goes along With what you’re saying with the tech Stack right you don’t want to go in and Just like rip everything out and change Everything exactly The same is true for for people you Probably don’t want to change the way You’re writing content or the processes On on day one just keep it going as it Is it’s been successful so far and then As you learn the business you can then Start making more and more uh tweaks and Adjustments to it give them an
Opportunity if possible to like advance Their position by helping you take over The business properly i think it can be A win-win situation uh given the Potential cost of losing so many people Are like having to rebuild a team or Whatever trust me you you’re often Better off Offering you know potential bonuses or Something like that to someone that Would Maybe maybe was just a writer or just an Editor but then you can have regular Calls about the overall editorial Direction of the site and what they Think and their feeling on the niche etc And i think this this consideration to Me is is very important uh Both monetary but also in terms of Respect of their experience and giving Them credit for what the site got so far And what you got interested in the first Place so that’s pretty much that you Want to add anything on team stability No no Okay so um the next one is links right Obviously we talked about content we Need to talk about links Historically google doesn’t seem to have Punished very hard in terms Recently at least in recent years Because historically they have um in Terms of Having bad links basically but they seem
To be quite good at at least ignoring uh Things that they consider irrelevant That are not matching you know Like organic links i would say uh and i Actually personally suspect but that’s Just a suspicion i don’t have data to Back it up that a lot of core updates Might be more about links than people Make it out to be and just be google Just discarding batches of links that Don’t match what they’re looking for it Could be a reason why go up and go down Et cetera and why these big sites tend To keep going up because they tend to Have more real links than like small seo Sites Um And then and i know people are gonna Challenge that so i just had a question I wanted to put in there then we go back To the point which is have you been Building links to a page for a while and Then the rankings haven’t moved even Though you’ve been building links for a While and that would be for me a Manifestation of google being quite good At neutralizing links they don’t like Anymore but anyway That can be a problem if you believe That uh google could be discarding some Of the links to the website but another Problem could be that lots of sites for Sell in the marketplaces are supported By pbns the problem is quite often these
Owners sell the site they leave the Links for a while and then six months Later They’re like well i have my other Project now i’d like to use these links And the more links there is on the pvn The less powerful it is because of the Nature of page rank right divided by the Number of outgoing links so they remove These links to the site they sold then Your ranking drops and you’re like oh actually what probably wasn’t was The price i paid because you paid for These rankings really and these rankings Were supported by something that you Didn’t acquire with the website so they Had the freedom to remove these links And really you don’t have anything to Say after the fact but you have Something to say before you buy and that Is the interesting part so the thing That i would do is i would probably Check the website on not just ahrefs Because you can actually block Certain crawlers especially the f5 block The bot and the semrush bot tend to be Blocked by a lot of pbns and so the site Could be ranking up and you would not Even see the links in ahrefs they would Be invisible to you if you just use These tools That’s when i like to use smaller Cheaper Worse seo tools to check the website so
Like that’s kind of the joke that we Have internally that’s like the main use Of servstat I have that account that i got on Appsumo a while ago like that lifetime Account and uh when i want to find pbns I tend to use it because nobody blocks Sub stats in their vpns And so you tend to see a different Picture quite often than what you would See in ahrefs for sites that use pbns And so that’s an opportunity for you to Find these sites even if they’re hidden And that is a Trick for people who sell websites right They supported by pbn blocked on ahrefs And semrush sell it for a high price we Use these links on the next project sell It for a high price we use these links On the next project and end up just Gathering more value than they probably Should Because they they Remove the part that is valuable to your Site so once you find these you can go During the bio the vetting process you Can go and ask about these and you can You can either acquire them with the Site like quite often these are sold as A package deal but they might not be Sold as a package if you don’t bring it Up so it’s up to you to find them Um Or you can have a contract with the guy
To maintain these links or have him Replace them and then see if the ranking Stay and then whatever but basically you Need to negotiate here or you can just Negotiate a lower price i guess you can Just say well look these rankings are Here from these links these links are Not part of the package i want a big Discount or i’m not interested and work Out basically but i think you need to be Quite careful because that’s probably One of the most common Things that could be deceiving in the Cell of a website like the content is There right it’s up to you to go and Browse the website um the but the links Can be hidden quite well and you need to Go and dig for that so be very careful Use multiple tools to check the links uh And negotiate based on what on your Findings and i think if you’re maybe More new to this and you might have a Harder time kind of understanding good And bad links Um then just ask someone you’ll hire a Link builder to yeah To help you you run through this most There are due diligence companies out There that you know specialize in in Buyer side due diligence to help you Understand these kind of seo things i Haven’t used any of them personally um They have um i’ve been on the receiving End when they’ve done due diligence on
On us and they’re generally pretty Thorough but i don’t know how far they Go in terms of looking at you know non Stuff they can’t find on ahrefs or Hidden pbns or anything like that yeah i Would really do that like if i spent Like hundreds of thousands on the site Like Buy your months on multiple tools and do It Okay