Software products specifically SAS tools Are often seen as a sort of Holy Grail Of online marketing but the truth is They’re actually very very difficult to Build and to promote so today I’m going To be interviewing Mark Thompson Co-founder of pay Kickstart their Shopping cart and affiliate management Platform that do over a million dollars A year in annual recurring revenue and Today we’re going to be talking about How to get started developing software Tools and SAS products even if you’re Not a developer and have no coding Knowledge and we’ll also go into some of The sales marketing and product launch Strategy which he uses to promote his Product let’s get started Foreign Welcome to the show Mark Thompson thank You so much for having me I appreciate It Uh before the show we were chatting About the the warrior forums it seems we Were both active on there back in the Day uh can you tell us how you got your Start in online marketing and Specifically what role the warrior Forum Played in that yeah absolutely so I Guess we’re dinosaurs anyone who knows What the warrior forum is it’s not as Popular as as it is as it was today but Um yeah so it’s it’s the largest digital Uh Forum online for internet marketers
And so there’s actually a section on the Warrior Forum called Warrior special Offers and it’s really a marketplace Where vendors and product sellers can go And sell all different types of products Information products and software and so I always thought it was kind of odd that People were selling products in a forum It was just kind of an odd thing but it Was kind of amazing because inside of The warrior form there’s a in that Particular part of the Forum you can see How many people are actively looking at Each thread and so you could see like Thousands upon thousands of people Looking at at a a threat at any given Time and so it really caught my interest To see that people were selling Thousands of copies of their software of Their information programs to people all Over the world and so at the time I was Working you know I was kind of balancing A couple things I was working with a lot Of marketing clients so I worked with a Lot of small to medium-sized businesses And I hated the concept of trading time For money I hated it was really hard for Me to scale that model of selling a Service and so I loved the concept of Selling a product 24 7 365 days a year And just it just seemed so much easier To scale but at the time I really didn’t Know how to create a product and bring It to a market and so I just kind of sat
Back in the background for about a year Watching and studying this this Marketplace on the Forum and I just Started to connect with the different People that were active in the Forum so I started to meet other product creators And started to learn kind of like hey You know like what what works really Well to sell and so I had a lot of Knowledge in search engine optimization Pay-per-click email marketing social Media marketing because I was doing it For my clients but I had never actually Wrapped it up into a product and so That’s kind of how things got started With me you know even you know beginning To think about you know taking my Knowledge and wrapping it up as a Product What was the first product you actually Launched on there it actually it was an Excel file so it was called the link Builders toolkit and so it was just a CSV file that showed people where they Can go to find high quality backlinks And so backlinks were really popular at The time especially for anyone trying to Optimize their website for Google and so I sold it I think for like 17 bucks or Twenty seven dollars I can’t remember And it was just literally a CSV it Showed the link of like the main website A link to where they go to actually Create the backlink and then just kind
Of some notes on what they need to do And so it was really that simple and so It was actually just like an internal Dock that I had for building backlinks For my customers and clients and I just Kind of threw it out there to see if Anybody would buy it Um was that like an aha moment for you Did you did you start realizing okay Maybe there’s there’s something in this Or or was that not until later I mean I Think it was a small aha moment it Wasn’t anything groundbreaking you know I I probably had maybe 20 or 30 people Buy it but just the fact that I was able To create a product that someone would Buy was kind of a groundbreaking moment For me but it wasn’t you know Life-changing by any means but that that Was a stepping stone to bigger better Things What was the next in that line of uh Bigger better things then yeah so I I Probably I made a huge mistake and so What I did was if anyone knows who Jeremy Shoemaker is he’s been around Forever as well and he had this thing Called The Good Karma list machine and It was this it was a script to help you Build your email list and so what would Happen is you’d opt in for something a White paper or download and then it Would send that person who opted in to a Thank you page and it’s and it gave them
A referral link and it said hey go and Tell other people about this you can Earn additional bonuses or additional Downloads or whatever it is that you Wanted to incentivize them with to go And share their link and get other People to download your offer and so I Thought that was a really cool concept I Loved the idea of viral list building But it was really hard to set up I Didn’t understand how to install scripts And how to create databases and all that And so I was like well what if I can Take that concept and create a WordPress Plugin out of it because at the time WordPress was was really big and popular People weren’t really doing SAS and so I Hired a company that um was kind of well Respected in the marketplace to build This product and so I spent about thirty Thousand dollars in creating this Product and at the time I didn’t really Know anything about building software so I just relied on them and it was a Pretty big you know leap of faith to try To go and build this thing and take Really all the savings that I had at the Time to go and build this product and so That’s what I did I created my first Piece of software without really Understanding the process How I mean how do you even start doing Something like that not being a Developer yourself did you just find
Them somehow and and just hope that they Were going to do a good job or well so There was a product that they created It’s called pop-up domination and and if Anyone who’s been around for a while That was a really uh popular product Back in the day it was a WordPress Plugin that helped you to build your List and so I kind of hunted down the The development agency that built that Product and so I kind of knew they had Somewhat of a track record and so I Reached out to them and you know knowing What I know now and the fact that I know How to manage development teams and the Development process I probably could Have had that thing built for probably Like six thousand dollars but you know You don’t know what you don’t know and So I obviously paid a premium for it but They did a good job it’s you know I’ve Heard of so many horror stories of People getting screwed out of money and And you know products only getting half Built and then the guy leaves and so um I was lucky Um where you know I actually had a Product was done and ready but you know I I kind of realized that there was a Lot more to launching a product than Just creating the product Uh and yeah that was going to lead on to My next question so we we have a sort of Similar experience you know building and
Developing courses I know it’s a Slightly different product at the end of The day but I think a lot of people There’s this perception that oh if you Build a really cool SAS tool or if you Build a course People will just somehow magically find It but you have to do a little bit more Sort of leg work to it can you talk About how some of the things that you Did to maybe promote that in the that That tool in the early days yeah so There’s a couple things that I I Definitely learned so the one thing was You know as you said like it it’s not if You build it they will come type of Thing right you have to actually go out And Market it and do the legwork to get Exposure and the other thing especially With software is it’s kind of like a a Living breathing entity it’s not just Like you build it and you still have to Support it right you still have to you Know improve on it and so that’s really Just the beginning I learned Um and so when I when I released it I Put it on the warrior Forum I may have Sold I don’t know maybe 30 or 40 copies Of it but I didn’t really know what I Was doing I just figured I’d throw it on On the worry for them and it would sell Great but Um I realized that there was way more Involved and so what I did was actually
Reached out to someone who was um kind Of relevant in the space he was an Authority in the space and so I said hey I have this products it’s it you know I Lost it it didn’t really do that well Um can you help me you know get more Exposure get drive more traffic to it I’ll give you 50 of the revenue just Help me get this thing in the hands of More people and so that’s what he did And so um that was really one of my big Aha moments we kind of relaunched it and He had connections with lots of Affiliate Partners so Affiliates went And promoted this thing and we redid the Sales page we added some upsells to the Sales funnel and so that was actually When we were able to do my first six Figure launch and that was to me like Life-changing Revenue like just that Just being able to kind of look over his Shoulder see how he went through the Process of marketing it how we changed The price points how we updated the Sales funnel how he got people on board Who have um like-minded email lists to Promote it and within seven days we you Know generated over a hundred thousand Dollars and that was just like crazy Money to me and even though I wasn’t Receiving all that money we had to pay Affiliate partners and we had to pay my Partner on the project just being able To see him go through that process and
Kind of sit behind the scenes and watch It was amazing That’s really impressive how did you Actually convince him to take you Seriously and to to like help you Promote it because I know we get a lot Of people emailing us hey I’ve built This new tool or plug in can you promote It I’ll give you X percent or whatever But I mean I don’t think we’ve we’ve Ever said yes to to any of those you Must have done something to convince him Like what what was your strategy there Yeah so I mean I did leave out the the Point that I did contact 10 other people And everyone else said no the good news Is you only need one person to say yes And it was actually a good fit at the Time and so I think for him you know There was a lot of upside right I spent Tens of thousands of dollars developing This product Um it was very unique to the marketplace But list building has always been a big Thing so it’s popular and it it kind of Spans all different Industries and Niches so there’s a wide audience and um It was it was really ready to be Marketed so I mean he didn’t really have To do much outside of really the sales And marketing side of things what he had Down to a T and so it was really easy You know it was kind of TurnKey ready to Go and so it was it was kind of a quick
Win for him so there’s a lot of upside So he was basically getting people he Knew all like other Affiliates to to Promote it then yeah yeah absolutely Okay Um and how how has that model evolved For you then so you you now uh run and You’re a co-founder of pay Kickstart so It’s uh in fact why don’t you tell Everyone what it is yeah so so pick Kickstart so it’s it’s a it’s a billing And affiliate management solution so we Work with all sorts of digital sellers Mainly so maybe you’re selling software Or a membership site or an information Product Um we help you to accept payments manage Recurring billing uh manage affiliate Partners we help optimize the checkout Process maximize conversions during that Checkout process we help retain more Customers uh to you know help with the Dunning process when you know failed Payments happen so we do all these types Of things and we remove all the Technical hurdles that come along with Accepting payment managing recurring Revenue all this kind of stuff that Really you know entrepreneurs and Business owners don’t want to have to Worry about you just connect your PayPal Your stripe accounts and then we handle The rest so um yeah we work with about 1500 different vendors right now mainly
Digital vendors but we do work with some Physical Sellers as well but we’re not The traditional add to carts Shopify Magento type of of billing solution There there seems to be quite a focus For you guys on the affiliate side of Things so having other people promote Promote your products was that born out Of your own experience with these Earlier launches then yeah so you know For five or six years we really did uh Max we leveraged the product launch Formula like more than almost anyone I Know so we created lots of different Products and programs and so we realized As we started to release these products That there were so much lost revenue and Opportunity that was being missed out on From using all these existing shopping Carts and affiliate Solutions I found Them to be super archaic missing you Know functionality that we needed and so We built the tool out of necessity so Really pay Kickstart was an internal Tool that we used to sell our own Products and so we you know after using It internally for about a year and a Half people started to contact us and be Like that’s a really cool checkout page Or how did you do one click upsells or How all these different questions around Like well you know would you be Interested in using it for your own Business and and they were like you know
I’d love to and so that kind of got our Wheel spinning saying like hey we could Actually turn this into a platform that That other businesses can use And how how did you actually go about Creating it then you know not not being A developer yourself well you know so I Learned a lot over five or six years and So I learned the development process I Learned how to hire developers how to Manage them properly how to manage Expectations Um all that kind of stuff was kind of a Long road of five or six years of of Creating software and so you know we Didn’t just go out and just build a Kickstart because I mean what it is Today it’s it’s a beast it’s it’s a Massive SAS application but it was Something that was learned over the Years and so I had Um you know hired and fired countless Numbers of developers so you know it was Something that happened over years and We were able to create a really solid Team so I hired a CTO who was able to Manage our development team and we Really had a well-oiled machine of being Able to code efficiently have you know Uh QA checks to make sure that you know All the bugs were worked out and so we Worked out this process over a number of Years To um to to be able to even create pay
Kickstart and then once pay Kickstart Was created and brought to Um you know live to to the public Um you know we’ve spent the last four Years just continuously improving on it And maturing the platform So knowing what you know now about that Whole process of bringing on developers Creating software what advice would you Give to yourself if you could go back in Time to just before you created uh Pop-up domination yeah and uh and and I’m sort of posing this question because I’m sure there’s a lot of people Listening out there who you know maybe They’ve been in IM for for a while and They have a plug-in or a software idea In in their headlight what do they Actually what should those people Actually do if they want to bring their Idea to life yeah it’s a good question I Get asked a lot um so there’s a couple Things the first one is to make sure That your product is focused on on Solving one pain or challenge don’t try To do too much I know a lot of people Especially when you’re creating software You get feature happy and you’re like Well we can’t release the product until It has this feature and this feature and That feature and before you know it You’ve extended your development roadmap Another six months another year another Two years all the while you could have
Released it to the public and yes while Didn’t have everything that you wanted It to have you could at least start to Generate Revenue you could get it into The hands of people and start to you Know find bugs figure out ways to Improve on it and just be the best at One thing and so I think that was one Thing that we did early on was the Mistake of trying to accommodate so many Different people saying well you know I Needed to do this I needed to do that And so we really tried to just have it Do so much when you know we could have Just had it focused and have it be the Best at one thing and Market it that way And then over you know the course of the Next months and years continue to have It evolved so that was one thing that That we definitely made a mistake on the Other thing was trying to work on too Many projects uh we we spread ourselves Too thin and we only had limited Resources and so what was happening was We were just starting to be average for All of these different products and so Once pay Kickstart kind of went public And Um you know went live to the public we Really had to kind of shift our focus Our energy our resources towards making The platform the best billing and Management solution it could be Um and so the other products that we
Created over the years while we still Support them we actually have a small Team managing them we realized in order To make pay Kickstart a mainstream SAS Application and be able to compete with Other solutions that are in the Marketplace which is a pretty Competitive Marketplace we needed to Kind of be all in and so that was Something that you know we we learned Early on that we needed to make that Decision to to really go all in Um you know after the first six or six Months to a year Do you think it’s worth partnering with A developer if you have a software Software idea or do you think you should Just hold on to your equity and hire People to do it Depends on what position you’re in so Early on that’s what I did for a lot of Projects I would partner with developers And so obviously that’s going to help Mitigate your risk because you’re not Having to pay for the development Resources or or less you can at least Cut the cost in half if you’re splitting It with a developer but that definitely Helps right just starting out maybe You’re just going to create a basic Piece of software having that person to Be able to to develop it not have to pay That overhead is is huge if you are you Know more of a mature entrepreneur
You’ve maybe created lots of businesses You have Capital at your disposal you May want to take on more risk and not Have a partner a technical partner and Just hire and pay a CTO to do that I Actually have a partner on pay Kickstart And he’s we’re both kind of sales and Marketing people so um while I do have a Partner we kind of help to divide and Conquer the different sales and Marketing pieces that come with you know Application And in 2020 where does one go to hire a Developer these days yeah so I mean There’s lots of different places we have Found that upwork has been probably the Best place we go to upwork.com we have We have a virtual team so there’s about 25 of us all in different countries Um cities uh so it’s really kind of cool Um so we we tend to hire a lot of Developers from Eastern Europe so Everywhere from Russia to Moldova to Ukraine there’s a lot of talented Development Developers out there but you have to Really understand the process you need To know how to communicate with them Because there is somewhat of a language Barrier so you need to be able to manage Them appropriately which that doesn’t Happen overnight it was something that We learned we’ve been Outsourcing Overseas for about uh eight or nine
Years now so definitely doesn’t happen Overnight but there’s Talent everywhere Across the world but upwork.com has been A great reason source And have you ever used job rack I haven’t there’s God there’s probably Dozens of different hiring sites out There freelancer.com and you know Onlinejobs.ph job Rex job Rex uh focused On on Eastern Europe Um okay it’s uh it could be it could be Actually good one to check out uh so When you’re developing the pay Kickstart What was your goal to to say okay this Is our MVP we’re going to launch it when We have you know this amount of features Like how did you determine that yeah so Well it started as an internal tool so Initially we just wanted to be able to Accept Paypal accept credit card create Like a basic checkout template Um be able to uh let’s see what else do We have we uh actually in the in the Very beginning we didn’t even have an Affiliate management platform we Actually Past all the the details to a Third-party affiliate management Solution so when we first launched it it Was really just a billing checkouts Um you know platform and then we added The affiliate management piece when we Released it to the public so we we Didn’t release to the public until we
Had both the billing and the affiliate Side of things and then once we did that We really allowed our vendors to dictate What should be added next Um and so I mean God there’s a laundry List of different things that we added We added more payment options like wire Transfer PayPal credit uh then we added Things like a customer billing portal to Allow customers to go and update their Billing details go and upgrade and Downgrade I mean just like order bumps And coupon codes and tax management I Mean the list goes on so we had a that Was one challenge that we had was really Trying to prioritize it and one way we Did that was we created a feature Request area where people can submit Feature request they can go and vote on Them and that would help us to Prioritize Yeah and I notice a lot of software Tools whenever you’re talking about Something in their Facebook group They’re always saying have you have you Submitted a feature request feature Request but it’s good to see that people Actually do listen listen to those yeah I mean that that was a huge problem like Before we did that people would say hey I need this feature I need that feature And we had no way to manage it so like They were just coming in all different Directions and so finally we were able
To create like a central repository for It and just made it much easier to Manage and it’s more transparent too Because all of our all of our vendors Can see what’s been released what we’re Working on what’s in the pipeline you Know what is kind of sitting in a bucket That people can vote on and we can Hopefully move those up to Priority if If more and more people want it And you mentioned earlier as well that Uh I think it was a pop-up domination or One of the other tools you launched that There’s there’s a significant or there’s A meaningful support overhead in terms Of updating it and and just supporting Users what percentage of your efforts or Team resources kind of goes into Supporting existing customers versus Building and growing the tool yeah so That that is probably one of the biggest Uh changes I have made both as as an Entrepreneur and as a business Um you know when when we created Products it was completely flipped so we Would spend you know 80 percent of our Time creating the products getting it Marketed out there and then 20 of our Effort would go towards just kind of Maintaining it’s adding new features Here and there Um but that has completely changed so I Would say probably 60 or 70 percent of Our effort is really just around
Customer happiness making sure that They’re happy making sure that they’re Using the tool that they’re getting Onboarded properly that we’re giving Them everything they need to get to First value as quickly as possible and That they’re getting all the value that We promised that they’re getting with The tool because you know once and That’s the difference between you know Like back in the day when we would sell A product at a one-time fee versus you Know now we’re really focused on Recurring billing getting people to pay Month over month year after year and in Order to get people to do that you need To have great customer support you need To be able to onboard them properly you Need to give them the the resources and The tools they need to be successful With your product or they’re going to Leave because there’s so much Competition in the marketplace now you Really need to provide them with all That And how do you do that how do you give Someone a good onboarding experience in A software business yeah so a couple Things so um you know one one thing Especially like in the like about two Years ago we had a really big churn Problem we had people canceling at Alarming rates and so it was very hard For us to to even scale because so many
Customers were leaving after a couple Months and so we had to really Understand why they were leaving and so We would survey them and find out that It was just too it was confusing they Didn’t know where to go once they’ve Signed up and so one thing that we added About a year and a half ago or maybe a Year ago now was um an in-app onboarding Process so as soon as they sign in they Can see okay step one do this step two Do that step three do that just to get Them to First value as quickly as Possible so that was that was one step In the right direction and we noticed That our churn got cut in half when we Did that but it still wasn’t to the Point where we were happy or satisfied With it I guess you never really are but Um so another thing that we did was we Added the ability to we added live chat So we have 24 7 live chat where people Can ask questions and we can um help Them that way so that was another thing That we added and again we noticed that Our churns started to go down when we Added that but we weren’t satisfied There so another thing that we’ve Actually just recently added was a 30 Minute complimentary onboarding call so They can jump on a call with our Onboarding team with our products uh uh Success team and be able to ask Questions make sure that they’re we’re
Getting them over that initial hurdle Because with any especially any big SAS Application there’s that learning curve We wanted to get them over that learning Curve as quickly as possible and so we Added that and again we noticed that our Churn started to go down even more so It’s been one of those things it’s been An ongoing effort and it doesn’t happen Overnight but little by little we learn More and we figure out new ways that we Can get those customers the first value And make sure they’re happy and using The product And when you initially launched it how Did you go about selling and promoting It and how has that sales and promotion Approach changed over time as you’ve Matured Yeah it’s a good question so in the very Beginning you know we had a list of Probably a hundred thousand customers That had purchased products from us in The past over you know five or six years So that was kind of the you know the First thing that we did was we promoted To that list so that was really nice That we had that in our back pocket a Lot of companies don’t have an existing Customer base to Market to so we were Lucky there we also had a lot of Relationships with affiliate Partners so We were able to run webinars and they Were able to drive traffic to you know
Landing pages and sales pages to get People to sign up that way so we would Offer referral commissions for anyone That signed up through their affiliate Links and so those were probably the First two ways that we were able to get Our initial customers on board Um but you know once if I can just dig Into one of those sorry it’s really Interesting about the the webinar side Of things so that’s that’s basically Where you go and do a co-hosted webinar With with the affiliate is that what you Mean yes so uh they would drive people To a registration page and I would Present a webinar they would drive their Customers their Their audience to this Webinar and then I would make some sort Of an offer at the end of the webinar And those Affiliates would earn a Commission off of uh whatever was sold And was that very successful Um yes and no you know we we realize That it’s not easy to get someone to Switch shopping carts or billing Solutions Um especially early on when people Didn’t know who the heck we were Um people were like you know I’m not Going to trust this company with with You know really my business right I mean The most important part the billing part Of it so it was we found it it was kind Of slow going in the beginning
But after a couple years you know things Started to change once we started to get Brand exposure and we got a footprint on The web people really started to you Know trust us more Um and that’s when we started to have More of a Snowball Effect if more and More people start to sign up people you Know especially once you know they had a Great experience with the product then We started to get more word of mouth and People start to organically start Talking about it and more and more Organic signups started to happen And so Um how has how do you do marketing these Days then for your util yeah so it’s It’s evolved a lot so Um you know I would say a lot of it is Is Word of Mouth Um it’s also more of a long-term Strategy so we have a pretty robust uh Content strategy so we do a lot of Search engine optimization so um you Know we optimize for a lot of long tail Keywords that people would be searching For Um so we we post about two or three blog Posts uh a a week on our blog we also do Things like podcast interviews like We’re doing today we’ll do co-branded Webinars with Partners Um so it’s it’s definitely a more robust Strategy we have lots of kind of coals
In the fire we have lots of different Traffic strategies we’ll do some Retargeting so we don’t do a ton of paid Search but we do some retargeting Um we’ll do we’ll still you know run Webinars with Affiliates the organic Side which is more more of a long-term Strategy you know we’ve been working on Our organic traffic for for years now And I would say just in the last six to 12 months that’s been our main growth Channel has been through through content So that’s like your your own blog Talking about how to install a shopping Cart or things like that yeah okay uh What metrics do you track on the the Sales side of things then what what’s Important for you as a software business The I mean we track a lot of metrics the Main metrics are going to be like our Our mrr so you know monthly recurring Revenue uh we’re also looking at churn We’re also looking at the average Customer value Um and so one thing that we’ve really Tried to focus on and it’s kind of an Ongoing effort now is expansion Revenue So how do we get those customers that We’re paying us you know 29 a month when We first started how do we get them to Pay us 99 or 150 bucks or 200 a month so We’ve really put a lot of focus on Getting our existing customer base to Spend more with us through add-ons
Through you know um uh upgraded uh uh Plans that kind of stuff And how do you go about determining your Pricing model in such a tool well Probably the biggest mistake we made was The fact that the pricing and plans that We had from the beginning were the Pricing and plans that we had four years Later so we never changed our pricing or Plans for four years and actually Um at the time that we’re recording this We recently just updated our plans to Kind of reflect the the maturity of the Platform it’s it’s evolved so much from What it was four years ago so you know It’s more in line with you know some of Our our more mainstream competitors and So we’ve kind of we’ve read we’ve redone The the plans and pricing from the Ground up and um so that that has Definitely been a major growth Channel Just in the last couple weeks since we Released the new plans we’ve already Seen an uptick in in mrr and customer Value all those things across the board And how do you go about differentiating Yourself from competitors in in that Space because there’s a lot of shopping Carts out there but yeah you seem to Have a a somewhat unique angle or take On it yeah so uh we have kind of a Unique seller proposition depending on Like who we compete with so like there’s A lot of uh billing solutions like
Recurring billing solutions a lot of Those Solutions don’t have an affiliate Management component so that’s one thing That kind of differentiates us is you Know not only can we handle your billing We can also handle your affiliate side So you don’t need a third-party tool to Do that there are also Solutions out There that are both a billing and Affiliate solution but they’re not as Flexible they don’t have as much Customization so you know things like One-click upsells and coupon codes and Order bumps and you know we have a Mobile app so there’s all sorts of Unique selling propositions there so it Really just kind of depends on you know What type of Customer because we have Different segments of customers that we Work with And in a software business how do you Deal with capacitors that do you find They they copy your features there’s a Lot of that kind of thing that goes on Um I mean they do but to be honest with You I don’t really even worry about Competitors I just worry about the Customer I mean as long as the Customer’s happy they’re not going to Leave so that’s really what I spend the Majority of my time on I mean do I go And look at competitors of course I do I Want to see what they’re doing and you Know what what’s going on in the
Marketplace but I mean I would say I’d Spend 90 of my time just more focus on The customer getting feedback from them And just figuring out how can we you Know help them sell more make more money You you mentioned that it was is a Little bit challenging to get people to Switch their billing uh solution over to You because it’s quite uh sort of core Aspect of of their business is the flip Side of that also true like it once They’re in they’re kind of they tend to Be in for for quite a while Yeah absolutely and that so that was the You know the reason that our churn was So high was we noticed that people were Leaving in the first month or two but if We could give get them over that hurdle Their customers for life because you Know again with a billing solution You’re that’s really integrated into the Core of your business and so we did find Once people got past that threshold They’re very comfortable with the tool They’re happy with it and and they stay For life so a couple things that we did To help make it a seamless transition From one shopping cart to ours would be Like we help them to import Subscriptions from their uh previous uh Solution into ours so it can be as easy As hey I have a whole bunch of stripe uh Subscriptions in my stripe account Um and we could just with one click
Import those into the platform and then We could take over so we did that as Well as having you know training our our Product success team on you know helping Them overcome challenges along the way Just to make it a smooth transition And do you think that SAS as a space is Getting more competitive these days oh Absolutely I mean Um there’s no better time to start an Online business and uh it’s it’s Relatively easy to start a SAS business These days so you see more and more Competitors pop up Um but as more and more competitors pop Up a lot of them are are leaving and Dying quickly so um if you’re not in it For the long haul and uh you’re not Having a long-term play and you’re and You’re not focused on customer success Uh you won’t last in the marketplace So what do you think is the main thing That differentiates successful SAS Businesses from unsuccessful ones is it That customer focus I I think it’s the customer focus and so Um and that’s really what we’ve been Obsessed with and it’s it’s the reason That we’ve spent so much emphasis on 24 7 live chat making sure that when people Submit a a ticket you know we’re Replying to them you know within minutes Most of the time Um creating so many tools and resources
Uh you know knowledge based articles and Quick start guides and webinars and and Tutorial videos and in-app onboarding All of these things play a role in Customer happiness Uh and if you were to do it all over Again start starting pay Kickstart what Would you have done differently I won’t Do it again no Um I mean what would I do differently I Mean God I would have done a lot of Things differently I think and I alluded To it before as you know I tried to Accommodate to so many different Audiences instead of just focusing on One industry being the best in that Marketplace and going after those that Audience and so in the beginning it was It was very hard because you know all of Our our messaging our product was kind Of General it was just like well who do You who do you serve right and so people Would come to the website and they’d be Like well is this is this solution for Me or not I’m not sure so I think just Having more Focus early on would have Would have been better and then you can Start to tackle different Industries Different segments as you start to grow Uh and second last question uh if Someone is out there thinking of Starting a a software project today Um what would you recommend they Actually do to get started is it just a
Case of like taking their idea of Building it and then figuring out how to Launch it or do you like look at the Market first what’s the what’s the get It off the ground approach well there’s A couple things uh most most of the time When you’re starting when people start a Software project and they’re not they’ve Never done it before they just kind of Have this idea in their mind and they Don’t actually write they don’t actually Take the time to do all the research and Do all of the leg work up front to Really document everything what needs to Happen how is the how is it going to Work like doing mock-ups and wireframing To just kind of have a visual of what It’s going to look like before you go Through even the process of Designing The user interface and definitely before You even start coding the back end work So that’s really important to have all That down on paper and and really dig Into to the the details because it’s Going to save you so much time money and Energy once you actually start to Execute on the plan and then the other Thing I would say is having a technical Resource having someone that you can Trust that knows what the hell they’re Talking about because there are so many People uh developers in particular that Say yes yes I can do all this no problem Whatsoever and if you when push comes to
Shove and they’ve already billed you for Ten thousand dollars you realize they Didn’t know what the hell they were Doing and and you and you lost out on That money so I think it’s really Important to find either a technical Partner that you trust or a technical Resource that could be a development Agency that you trust that can really do The due diligence on when hiring those Developers to make sure that they know What they’re doing that the way that you Are developing it is architected Properly so you don’t go you know six Months down the road and you’re like Well we did this the wrong way we need To scrap it or we need to redo half of It right so a lot of it comes down to Again doing your due diligence getting Your you know researching what’s going To be the best approach before you even Put your pen to the paper I think that’s really good advice Actually and speaking from my own Experience having never launched a Successful software product but I Actually started one or two I think that Was the mistake we made it was like oh This this idea let’s get a developer and Start building building but in actual Fact when you when you put put like your Notes down and start planning out what Are all the phases that we need to push Push people through and what do we need
To build what information do we need to Store it’s like it’s even a simple idea Is a lot more complicated than that than You first thing so yeah so yeah yeah I Mean so usually what we’ll do is we’ll Break it out into Milestones so we’ll Break them into like little mini Sprints Or mini Milestones we’ll say okay well Milestone number one is this and then We’ll even have like the the wireframe For it so you can visually see what it’s Going to look like and we’ll have the User interface designed so that when the Developer which the majority of the time Is going to be the majority of the time And money spent is going to be the back End development where work so you that Back-end developer should have a crystal Clear picture of exactly what they need To do okay because it’s it’s written out In written format as well as in visual Format what needs to happen and you Should already have an estimate as to Like how much time it’s going to take For them to do it and you need to hold Them accountable and if it starts to and So many technical projects you’re Spending two three four ten times more Than you even anticipated right and so Technical projects can get just out of Hand so quickly and so that’s why it’s So important to have you know your Milestones and everything organized and And there’s a clear picture between you
Your design team and your development Team Nothing pisses off a developer more than A non-technical person coming in and say Oh can we just add this can we just do This can we just do this and that’s been Me Um on several occasions so avoiding yeah It should only take you an hour but in Actuality that’s that’s a week’s worth Of work yeah uh okay that’s been really Good is there anything which I should Have asked you which I haven’t asked you I mean I could talk about this for hours Or hours so if you got all day you know We can we can keep going but uh no I Mean I would I would love for anyone who You know if you’re uh an entrepreneur Running an online business I’d love for Everyone to to check out pay Kickstart Um you can take a free trial we also Have a Facebook group which is really Cool so we have a lot of like-minded Entrepreneurs in the Facebook group so Just go to Facebook and type in Kickstart and uh I’m in there and There’s thousands of of entrepreneurs in There as well so we love just kind of Talk and shop and helping each other out And help you know grow our businesses so And if people want to follow you do you Have are you on Twitter or anything like That Um I don’t really use Twitter that much
I’m not that add I try to stay away from Social media as much as I can so we have Our Facebook group which is uh the the Main area Um so feel free to to contact me there Um or you can you know contact our Support team and just kind of attention Mark and um they’ll forward it to me so Well thanks again Mark uh if you guys Enjoyed this episode don’t forget to Leave us a like on YouTube subscribe There if you’re not already subscribed Uh or on your favorite podcast platform You um no YouTube Spotify Uh Stitcher Apple did they change the Name of Apple iTunes it’s like too many Options I call keep losing track go There subscribe if you haven’t done so Already Gail and I will be back next Week with an another episode so we’ll See you there Foreign [Music]