Look starting and running websites is Not always a walk in the park when you Go and read Online marketing sites you’re going to Be reading about hockey stick growth And how amazing it can be to run a site And you know people doing really well Etc And really can happen i mean happened to Us many times with sites and happened to Many other people as well but sometimes Things don’t go as planned and your site Is slow Not growing even shrinking with google Updates etc And people tend to want to give up on Their sites and for the sake of balance In the industry and because really not Many people cover that side of the Business Today we want to talk about the times When you’re probably considering giving Up on your website And whether you should do it or not and We have In many cases actually given up on Websites all You know plot through and actually kept Going and did okay so we have a lot of Stories to share in his podcast Obviously a lot of you guys know about Health and mission that we gave up Eventually and we’ll talk about that in This podcast so if you want to hear
About that i’m sure You’re going to get a lot of info in This podcast and we also have a bunch of Other stories from friends and age pro Members etc that we’re going to be Talking about so Let’s get started Hey everyone welcome to the atari hacker Podcast Slash show i guess we could say so Because we’re doing a lot of videos These days Anyway today we’re going to be talking About whether You should give up on your website or Not so it’s not a fun topic to talk About But it’s an important topic to talk About and um there are times when you Actually should give up on your projects And we wanted to talk about that Should you you know start something new Sometimes we also get excited by like Shiny objects etc We should not give up on what we’re Doing so it’s it’s a quite important one That we wanted to talk about We did a podcast about this a while ago But uh It wasn’t i mean it is pleasurable to be Honest I think we have a lot more stories and Experiences around this so it’s going to Be quite an interesting one and we’re
Going to be sharing the stories With mark so how’s it going mark how are You doing any pair of socks or anything Well funny you should say that i don’t Have any to show you today but A sock company reached out to me So there’s a member of authority hacker Pro who started and runs A sock company uh in europe And he wants to send me some socks so You know good things come to uh those Who show their socks on podcasts i guess I don’t know Yeah someone suggested to send you some Underwear as well so that uh I don’t know if people are interested in Doing that but well i can’t promise i’ll Wear that on air but we’ll see I just wanted to add to what you’re Saying before around you know we sort of Covered this topic already but Uh it’s been several years since we’ve Done that but there’s also Some new angles i want to talk about Today uh Particularly for more advanced people so You know we we all know about the shiny Object syndrome and the The the stages people go through when They’re launching a site And how they can question it and we’ll Go through all of those today as well But Later on when you’ve done a lot of work
And you’re years into it And you have a seven-figure site uh you Can still come across these instances Where you’re not sure Like how do i get to the next level how Do i break through to You know the the next plateau and There’s there’s many different ways Of dealing with this so i think there’s Something for everyone to learn today And It should hopefully be a good episode Yeah there’s a bunch of fun stories as Well Uh let’s just jump in let’s just not Wait uh i i always rewatch the podcast And i realize how much we ramble so i’m Not rambling let’s start And i think the first one uh when you Should consider giving up oh when you A lot of people consider giving up but Maybe you should not is pre-launch Before the site is even ready or Anything Uh what a lot of people tend to do is They you know they Quickly find a niche then they go and Buy a domain or buy an expired domain Something like this Uh go and buy a wordpress theme uh kind Of like do all the setup maybe set up The email Like have they wanna they wanna take Action and feel like they’re making
Progress So like domain uh email wordpress theme All these things like feels like you’re Making progress but I think that’s the wrong way to do it Well that’s the thing it’s like they do All these stuff and then they get to a Point where they essentially have a Great looking branded empty site And then it’s like oh i need to Write some stuff now and then that’s When people start doing cute research And then they realize that ah it’s not Gonna be so easy uh Uh it’s gonna like i can’t beat these People or I don’t know how to tackle this niche Etc and That’s usually when a lot of people give Up and have a bunch of like Domains that are like not they don’t Even have content We’ve done that multiple times before Like especially back in the day Yeah on the namecheap account you just Have like 12 domains that you don’t use Or anything And then they just become your test Domains for your plugins that you bought Or something like this or whatever And uh and that’s the problem and um i Think This stems from poor niche research and Poor preparation
Uh that’s actually one of the things we Do in the autism system and i think it Talks a lot of people that Like you don’t start building your site Until like module four or something you Know five or so and Everything before is literally working On spreadsheets who’s like okay What pages are you gonna write about who Are the competitors How are you gonna monetize and all this Stuff and what it does is It prevents this from happening it Prevents you from getting to this point Where you’re like I don’t know what to do with this this Was probably a bad idea it also prevents You from doubting yourself right because If you made a strong plan And you’re darling then you can just Refer back to that plan and realize that Yeah actually it does make sense and You know there is this stuff i can do um But you don’t get to the hesitation Point where you need to start creating Content And you have no idea where to go usually When you do a v1 planning we tend to Have 40 to 100 pages that are planned For that website Actually you know we’re building now we Can talk about it we’re building the Test 3.0 site right now Um and it’s like it was a very smooth
Transition from The point of building to the point of Creating con actually a lot of content Was creating be Credited before the site was ready um Just because we had done the planning Before etcetera It was much easier so um yeah do your Planning correctly and then you will Avoid this ticking point And you will know whether you should do You should work in that niche before you Spend any money you’re going to save a Bunch of money as well on You know teams and domains and all that Stuff because you’re not going to waste Your time basically And just to add to that as well like if You do Get to that research point and think ah Actually this is not for me That’s actually the best time it’s good To quit the best time not to do it Because you’ve invested A little bit of time but not really any Money or any serious effort compared to If you’re one year in Uh so you know don’t be afraid to pull The plug on ideas Uh that you’ve bottomed out more Thoroughly in in research phase Yeah i mean you know the niche research In the new test i’ll spoil again but I start with 25 initially and i finish
With one it’s like It means i abandoned 24 basically um And uh and it’s great it’s just a lot Also It’s good to do this process with like Multiple niches in parallel because This you don’t know if an issue is good If you don’t have anything to compare it With you know So it’s like you only know it’s better Or worse than the other one there’s Really nothing else That you can look at so it’s it’s you Should actually be looking at many Niches and abandon And now the way i do it i kind of like Drop over time you know there’s kind of Like checkpoints and when you get to These checkpoints then you’re like okay Do i want to keep this niche Or like it’s already looking bad i’m not Gonna bother finishing the work for it Et cetera et cetera so yeah i would Recommend uh Thorough niche research is going to Prevent the stalling At the start which happens to a lot of People especially beginners that’s Really a beginner problem i would say Yeah and the next common phase or the Next Logical phase that people get to is they They’ve done all that they’ve Done their keyword research they built
The site it looks good they’ve started Getting some Basic content up there and You know maybe they’ve started building A handful of links or something but They’ve done all this work and not much Is happening they were expecting to see I don’t know millions of visitors on day Four or something But that’s that’s not usually very Realistic for For how these things work and it can be A bit jarring Doing all this work putting all this Effort in and Not really seeing anything for in terms Of like a reward So so quickly um and it just feels like Everything Starts to slow down a little bit and get A bit more grindy Uh and i think this is something every Single site Goes through so the the main thing Is that you should expect this to happen I don’t Think anyone should be expecting to to Make it rich on You know even in the first year to be Honest uh it takes a long time For a site to uh to to start gaining Serious traction these days And you need to understand that the Feedback loop that is the time
Between when you’re doing this work and Putting in the effort And when you’re seeing the results that Could be analytics traffic Actual money in the bank or whatever Else Is very very long so it can play On your emotions a little bit and you Feel like certainly versus other types Of work that you know You do you do the work you get paid at The end of the week or the end of the Month It doesn’t really happen like that when When you’re in the early days of Of starting a site so i think it’s Really important to anticipate this And when it does happen set yourself Some very realistic goals So the first goal might be to to make Your first dollar or two to get your First hundred Organic visitors on your on your site All like those of achievements that you Can control like 10 blog posts or Something like this as well like Uh and it’s like don’t tie a an outcome Like traffic or anything to it but Rather ah my goal is to have this 10th article published by the end of the Month or something and it’s like it Helps a lot actually with that I think i think there’s an argument to Be said like control what you can
Control but it’s i also think it’s Really important to have these Higher level goals even if they’re make Your first Dollar because if you go into this Thinking like oh i want to make You know 10 000 a month that’s my goal Okay Cool but you should break that down into Multiple steps otherwise Until you get to that 10k range you’re Going to be feeling like it’s like Oh i’m not there yet when am i going to Get there But the first dollar is the hardest Right it gets easier after that it’s Exciting as well right it’s like i mean I remember i i remember actually it’s Like it’s funny we just closed an age For lunch but like we did an h4 launch Couple years ago that did quite well And um and then we had that new site That we were working on at the same time That like made it first fifty dollars or Something and it’s like It’s like essentially age pro made a lot More money at that time obviously Um but how can i couldn’t stop talking About the fifty dollars that site make And We didn’t we did we kind of like Dismissed the end of the of the launch And just focused on that and it was um Yeah it builds a lot of motivation but
Like it’s really that point where You know you’ve kind of do it done all The easy setup all the visual stuff like Etc and you just need to grind your Content and because as you said the Feedback loop It takes time but it takes more time for New sites like when you have an hci That’s like three four years old Sometimes you publish a new rank on page One within a week and it’s great you Know Um but you say it’s quite rare And so and so it’s a it really it really Quite has to to This long but yeah it’s uh it’s You just have to deal with that slow Down of pace um That uh sucks and the thing as well is That it’s the time as well where Expenses start Start to rack up especially if you are Paying For writers if you i don’t know maybe You you pay for link builders as well You pay for that it’s like That’s when you’re starting to spend Your money you know quite seriously like Buying a theme for 35 dollars it’s like It’s really not a Massive expense or anything even a Hosting account for 100 You know when you do quality content It’s quite frequent that like that one
Article cost hundred plus dollars And well you need you need a hundred of These or something Um and it’s like well suddenly your bank Account is emptying And then you’re also seeing that the Money is very far away and so The return is very far away so it’s like It’s the scariest part Uh like it’s the scariest time to like You know pull money out of your wallet Because if you rank in a week it’s much Easier to be like okay fine Like in a week or in a month i’ll be Here and i’ll at least get some traffic For this and not sure i’ll make my full Return but i’ll get something for it Whereas you get zero at the beginning of The site but You know this phase is i think the phase Where A lot of people quit this and the next One and i think it’s great because If it wasn’t hard at that point then There would be so much competition so Much more competition So if you’re struggling think about all The other people that are quitting at The exact same moment as you And it’s basically like you know it’s The hunger games right it’s like it’s Like there’s only one left at the end i Mean not one but there’s only a few People left at the end that make a lot
Of money And then every time you see an open and Fall it’s like you have you’re getting Closer to this So it’s kind of like the way i’m looking At it when it’s really hard and i think It helps me a bit actually A really good practical uh thing you can Do To help manage your own motivations here And And get a bit of earlier feedback is to Set up google search console it’s Totally free And that will show you like analytics Will show you the amount of traffic you Get Uh google search console will show you The amount of traffic Google is sending you from the the serp And that may be zero or like hardly any People But crucially uh gsc google search Console will also show you The amount of times your site is Appearing on search engines results page Which is always a lot higher than the Actual traffic you’re getting So that being said it acts as a kind of Early lead indicator So the graph on gsc will for your Impressions will go Up much faster much earlier than your Your search traffic goes up so
If that’s happening you can uh Be rest assured that you’re kind of Doing the right thing all right the next One is kind of like the next step where It’s like You you’re getting some traffic you’re Making some money but it’s kind of like That’s the size stack it’s like a Hundred pieces per day type thing All the sites that make like a hundred Dollars a month or something usually the Range i would put this step is between a Hundred and a thousand dollars a month Was like you’re making some money but You’ve already invested some money at This point And it’s really not making enough for You to be close to like Quitting your job or making this your Main source of income especially if you Need to Keep investing in content you might even Be at a loss still but like you know There’s still some money coming in But it seems far right it’s like it’s Like if you’re making a hundred dollars A month even getting to a thousand you Need to It’s ten times that basically and and Because The human mind typically is really good At visualizing growth in a linear way It feels very far 10 times right but the Thing is
Actually you know it’s it’s as easy for Me To take as a site from a hundred dollars To a thousand dollars As it is to take aside from zero to a Hundred dollars Not maybe not exactly but like you know It’s in the same ballpark Of difficulty depending on the size Etcetera and so Really it’s like if you’ve done it Already you just need to do it again and You probably get to stop and when you Get to a thousand it’s nice because You can start really like at least the Site pays for it can pay for its bills If you don’t spend too much in content Um and uh and when the site is basically Running for free when i get it really Excited about project because i’m like Well We’re just growing adding content adding Links etc and it’s just costing us Nothing even if it takes two years It’s fine because like my bank account Is literally not suffering from this at All And i’m billionaire said that’s Eventually worth more money etc so Overall um yeah i would say it’s the Worst time to quit because There is i know there is a big Opportunity like i said that makes a Hundred dollars i mean for example my
Digital right my dignity he tries to buy Like sites that make very little money And there’s a good reason for that Because they’re out of the sandbox They’re already ranking a little bit There’s like all that really stuff that We talked in the previous step is gone And if you double down very often You will do well because you already Proven the concept because you’re Already making a hundred dollars a month So Uh it’s the thing as well and then the Thing as well is like managing your Expectation merging yourself as well It’s like I see a lot of beginners that uh get Quite emotional at that point like They’re like They think that’s it and they think that You know everyone else is making 10k a Month and they You know their attempt just yielded a Hundred dollars a month and it’s Uh it’s it’s like ex It comes with experience once you take a Side to a hundred dollars promise a Hundred dollars to a thousand dollars Then it’s not as scary but if for some People they just imagine that’s it and They will get nothing else and You’ve got also i like to think about The the value of a website right Because even the site that makes a
Hundred dollars a month Is was it’s like 35x no multiples now Something like this So it was 3500 right um but it’s not That hard to take from a hundred to a Thousand you just need to push it Anymore if you put it to a thousand this Site is about 35 grams It’s like quite a bit of money for a lot Of people right it’s a new car something Like this it’s like Um you know a big down payment on your House or something it’s not something Like this like you can it can really Change your life even Even this much so it’s like it’s It’s and the thing is well i think the The hard part for this is when your side Plateaus around this This amount that’s when people freak out Basically because Uh and that’s something we’ll talk a Little bit about plateaus later but Growth for websites in our experience is Really not that linear as well so for Example i’ll give you the example of a Tory hacker I’ll tell you hacker the the pattern of Traffic if you look at the analytics Over yes It’s like we grow a lot in january to March and we kind of like stay stagnant The whole year and then we just grow a Lot in january too much and
And like many sites we had kind of like Experience that kind of Thing as well and so if if it’s your First site which A lot of people that will struggle at This step it will be their first or Second side Um you imagine that you’re going to be There forever it’s it’s pretty frequent That your site you’re going to make like 100 100 100 100 And then like 500 1000 in like over two Months you’ll just be like You’ll be there and you don’t know why You were there for six months four Hundred dollars It jumps to that so overall um I am excited when my site makes 100 Because i know that i’ve proven the Concept Provided i didn’t put like an incredible Amount of resources behind it so that it Makes a hundred dollars I know i just need to basically put About the same amount of effort and i Would do fine so I also find that uh tracking this and Looking at it on a monthly basis Not just in analytics or something but Like having a spreadsheet where all your Key metrics are like Revenue um organic traffic Revenue per thousand visitors if you can If you can be tracking that as well
And then just having that all in a Spreadsheet and checking every month and Looking back And seeing uh those numbers go up slowly So you know 100 to 120 bucks like it may mean Nothing in terms of uh what how it Changes your life But a 20 increase is still huge i mean On any one of our websites so we got 20 Increase in in revenue today it would be Amazing Right so you need to look for the wins Where you can and not just kind of look At it from this or how does this impact My life At this very moment i also think what You said about the value of the site Like keeping track of what it’s worth Every month by multiplying the the Revenue the profit by 35 And looking at how that increases over Time because the numbers Quite significant more early on yeah Yeah it’s if It can help you feel like you’re making Progress in a in a more significant way Actually smaller sites sell for higher Multiples as well right so it’s like Actually when you’re in that range It’s not infrequent to see you inside Yourself or 50x for example And the the thing is you always have to Think who’s on the other end of this
Deal What do what information do they have That i don’t if i think this is like not Going well and i’m abandoning ship Why why someone else buying it are they Idiots well you know someone like matt Diggety obviously not i mean they’re They know what they’re doing so uh if They think they can take the site Uh and grow it then you know surely There’s still opportunity there Yeah i think it’s like for us it’s kind Of like it’s same for us like You know if you can buy a site like that I say that makes a hundred bucks a month And you buy it for like Three grand to five grands i guess That’s gonna be the range Um it’s great because usually that site Is already at least six months old i Would say Um and it’s either under monetized Because Yeah the the owner just doesn’t know how To monetize so he just use adsense or Something Um or it’s just like just starting or Like one or two articles did well But then usually if you find how like This article that did well you can just Find more keywords that will promote the Same offer At least double triple quadruple the Revenue even if it doesn’t become like a
100 000 months play or something um you Can you can still like Get a massive return from not doing that Much like Very often even just posting a bit of Content and getting like a 15 20 guest post to a site like that would Double triple his value so it’s like Um yeah it’s like i i think it’s the Probably the worst time to quit or or Give it up Um it’s also the kind of size that you Should be excited to work on i think It’s usually Your biggest opportunities in terms of Like doubling down you’re doubling your Money like a retail investment you know Um when a site makes a hundred bucks It’s like i i think it’s like the time Where your money multiplies the fastest Almost Uh in a lot of cases so i would i would Look at that Um yeah well i’d also just like to add One more point here Because the person has built and Got a website to a certain level they’ve Obviously developed a lot of skills and Knowledge along the way which is super Valuable But what at least what happened to us a Lot and i know happens a lot of other People is You start seeing cases of other people
In other niches or Hearing at conferences someone talk About how much they’re making with this Strategy or Doing this kind of thing and you think Oh i could do that too I have all the skills to do that and Then the the temptation can be to like Start from scratch in that space that Other space you know it’s classic shiny Object syndrome But inevitably it’s never as easy as Never straightforward as that so You just have to be really really Careful that you’re not Um there’s a really good phrase in English for For this like you’re not doing something To something To do something else i’ve cast every Phrase That’s literally every phrase at this Point it’s like you’re not doing Something Something to spite the right hand or Something like i can’t remember Anyway that was definitely a lot of Wisdom too much to take at once you know Um someone in the comments will know for Sure Why i meant all right let’s talk about The next one i think the next one i mean We definitely have some personal stories About that and that’s after google
Update Um and it’s kind of like especially us When you’re like you’ve been growing Recently you’re kind of like excited You’re in that mood maybe you’ve been Hiring more people you’ve been investing More because you’re like i’m doubling Down this is really working my site went From like a thousand dollars a month to Like Four thousand in the last six months or Something that kind of go and then Core updates happens and then your Traffic goes And it’s like divided by two divided by Three something like that and Obviously all of you guys know i mean Most people know It happened to us some uh health Ambition um And we actually decided to pivot away From that so actually when it took Um two minutes for like two minutes About it because you know what is Happened Um my my instant reaction and it was Through the medic update by the way Um and my my instant feeling was like we Were at the wrong time At the wrong place it’s like house of Mission wasn’t necessarily written by Phds and doctors etc it was okay it was In the line Of like you know wellness mama and a lot
Of even dr Axe etc a lot of other sites that have Since tried very very hard to recover And have not recovered or very little at Least um so Like looking at these size actually Because these were the size that we were Looking at to find keywords for example Uh looking at these sites first of all I’m pretty happy that we decided to Pivot away not invest more resources Because when that happens you Essentially have two choices right you Can either say Well this and i’m out or you can Say I’m gonna fix this but it means usually Heavy investment resources so for Example for these sites It means they had to change their entire Editorial stuff they tried the older eat Stuff They tried many many things uh Apparently some people recovered from These updates but like These these guys i’m thinking about the Guests that we literally had in our Computer spreadsheet did not Um and and it’s hard to predict right You can’t really tell What google’s gonna do next so it’s Gonna it’s going to surprise you Many times although i would say Sometimes you can suddenly predict it
And we’ll talk about that a little bit Later Um but like that’s i’m thinking about I’m let’s introduce that concept now Actually i’m gonna call it Autopilot mode and auto pilot mode Is when you build an editorial team uh You have processes And things are running right it’s like You’re not really reinventing the wheel You’re just finding more stuff to write About or update Et cetera and now it’s like okay how do We do this a thousand times and And that’s autopilot mode but the danger With autopilot mode if you don’t monitor It Is that your writers go in autopilot and Your editors go in autopilot etc and Nobody is really kind of like watching Your site sleeping In terms of quality et cetera and you And it happened to us many times with Editorial teams It’s like and mark knows how it goes Because It slips down for like six months to Nine months And then out of the blue we just go and Check an article and we’re like this is And and then it’s kind of but like if You don’t catch it Um google catches you basically and and
And that’s the thing it’s like if you if You’re unable to see that that happens So you can Semi predict that stuff’s gonna happen If you actually do some quality controls Throughout the way and actually check People’s work and Really have a critical lie and also Monitor your competition because it can Also happen that You’re maintaining that level of quality But your competition is going like this In quality and all of a sudden you’re Just a lot less relevant in your niche And you’re like marketing english holy that happens all the time like it’s Like Some articles we wrote a long time ago On the toy hacker that were absolute Reference Now some people have done way better and It’s like we need to come back and Actually do that Better than them etc and if you don’t do That work then you become irrelevant and That happens In every niche to summon to some aspect But anyway to go back to the google Update because all of this was to say You can essentially see you getting Caught by these core updates If you get caught into that um you can Either do this big site audit or you can Quit um i can’t tell you what to do
Because it really depends on the update What is targeting and what to do Um my advice when that happens is first Of all take a break Like give yourself like a month because Very often google updates you’ll drop But then They kind of like release a corrective Update a month later and sometimes just Do come back like that Happen for the medical day it happened For panda happened for penguin happened For all these et cetera Um but i Personally for me i think it’s it’s Sometimes A legitimate reason to criticize and and Give up on it actually and Looking back at health’s ambition i have Absolutely no regret that we did that I’m very happy actually i don’t know What you feel about that Yeah i mean we if you guys want to Actually learn more about the the health Ambition story and i think was the end Of 2018 We did a recap podcast uh where we Talked like for quite a while about it So we’ll we’ll link to that Um wherever it is around the the video For those listening or watching Rather on on youtube um honestly I i think the thing with medic The thing with that specific update was
It Targeted it was unfixable from our Perspective Because so much of the content on our Site was like Pseudoscience based um and we didn’t Really realize it at the time because we Weren’t like that into the niche Mode and we’re just like looking at what Other people were doing yeah exactly Yeah Um and i think that’s that’s the reason Why it’s like health line or just Dominating and You know dr axe and wellness ma’am are Nowhere to be seen anymore Um so i i think once Uh once this happens to you it’s kind of Hard to To deal with immediately because you’re You’re you want to take action Right you want to you want to fix it That’s why every time there’s an update And someone gets penalized like What’s the reason for this update tell Me so i can fix this on my site Uh but often there’s just back in the Day it might be More simple like oh the duplicate Penalty duplicate content Uh update or whatever but now it’s just So complex and you get no information And so many different things going on That
There’s not really much you can do which Is why it’s not just that sometimes Fixing it is literally redoing your site Right yeah sometimes like In the case of house ambition it was Like we need to rewrite like 80 percent Of the content Yeah and there was 1500 articles on the Site or something so And it’s like well i could just rewrite An entire new site instead you know It’s like and that’s what we did and we Sold that site for a lot of money you Know it’s like That’s not the case with all sites Though i i know many examples over the Last couple years with these more Frequent uh but less drastic core Algorithm yeah Where it’s really it kicks people off Into a mode of like Doing all the they probably should Have been doing anyway like Uh auditing their existing content Seeing what needs to be updated See what need to remove like maybe Removing some shitty links fixing some Like Technical seo crawl errors redirects Like these kinds of things um which you Should be doing anyway but if you’re not This is a really good excuse to And motivation to actually go and fix All of that stuff
And a lot of the not all the time but a Lot of the time that can actually Fix it or help fix it uh the other thing I’ve seen a lot Happen is people will spend nine months Trying to analyze what goes on While all the while stopping all their Normal content link building Optimization Marketing work uh and then nine months Later i think oh why isn’t my site Growing why doesn’t it come back was Like well you actually Stopped working for eight months or Whatever like you need to keep doing the Things that Cause you to go up in in traffic and Even if you don’t Recover from that update you’ll get back There To to where you were eventually just by Continuing to work Um in most cases yeah i think uh It’s like if you have obvious flows to Your site that are Fixable with other ways than like Rewrite all the content Um like technical issues like uh Things like that then then yeah i would Try to fix that because The investment in time compared to Especially if you like you are making Thousands of dollars per month like the Investment in time is often worth
The potential reward um so it’s like it Really depends Same like um if it’s a link issue like You know people buy A shitty link building service five Years ago and then whatever google Catches them And just penalizes them or something oh Like a new update would happen to target This Like this thing yeah you can do a Disabled file you can try it And it’s like uh Even if it’s a lot of your links i think You’ll be surprised how sticky your Rankings will be When you recover despite disavowing a Lot of your links Um it’s it’s one thing that i mean we Talked a little bit about this i think With my digit on the podcast We talked about link ghosting or Essentially like the power of links Stays like after you remove them or After they’ve disappeared for a while And uh and i think yeah even if you need To disable like half of your limb Profile or something like this Uh it’s probably worse giving it a shot Again probably like A day or two of annoying work maybe it Depends on how big your side is If you have a big site maybe it’s it’s Three weeks but
Um but i think there’s a there’s a This is a good chance so basically if It’s a technical depth that you need to Pay or if it’s Anything that you can fix in less than a Few weeks then i would say Probably try to give a shot to these Fixes if in okay If like us it’s like a content issue Even a common angle issue that just You know google doesn’t want to hear About drinking lemon water in the Morning to help your stomach or Something like this Um then just just give it up basically And that’s that’s one of these cases Where actually pivoting Um is not a bad idea and again i repeat No regrets Uh you want to do the next one yeah so The next one’s around uh Having a core team member or core member Staff or Writer or especially if someone’s like The face of your site or the face of Your brand that you’re working with Uh quit or leave and this can leave a Serious hole In your your company if you’re if you’re Very very small Maybe you only have one writer one Person you’re working with If they leave like what do you do I think a lot of people when they
Start hiring people they have this Expectation that they’re gonna sort of Just be there forever and never quit Never move on I think that’s that’s maybe not the best Mental approach to have like you can’t Avoid people People leaving you can make your your Place your You can make your company a better place To work uh you can Uh you know increase people’s salaries Pay them bonuses like Treat them nicely uh and and they’ll Want to stay You know sharing your v share your Vision with them for what you’re trying To do Get there and buy in and get them Excited and they’ll hopefully stay with You longer But the main thing is that you want to Be getting good work out of them While they’re while they’re there you Want to be Making sure that all you’re learning That you’re you have as an organization All your systems and processes that People are doing Are documented and organized uh you Also if you can you know diversify a Little bit have Multiple writers working working on your Site not just one
It’s not actually any more expensive if You do that might take a little bit more Time in management but It can it can save you a lot of a lot of Hassle Doing that and if you are if you ever Have a writer as like the face of your Brand Who’s you know the expert then make sure You have the right contracts and and Things in place that the That can that mechanism can continue to Be in place Should they leave at some point uh in The future i know people who have worked With other writers and You know they’ve been plastered all over Their site and then suddenly that Person’s left and they’ve had to Remove all mention of them from their Site and it just Can get a bit nasty quite quickly so if That ever If you’re ever in that situation Communicate with the person Uh try and be reasonable with them if It’s all possible And try and have some sort of semblance Of continuation As a as an option while you you’re Looking for You know new people the one thing i’ll Also say is that it’s Always possible everybody is replaceable
You know even yourself Um you know there are you’re gonna say Even me Well really really i mean It’s mostly me mostly me i mean it’d be It’d be hard but like if you got run Over by the bus tomorrow Like you know the And it may take several people to to do The task of like what you do but Like the things would eventually be able To get done again Um you know no offense but Okay i’m learning how to drive so the Bus is quite likely yeah But uh yeah i think it’s the one that Hits me the most actually like um Like you know it’s like i’m thinking About one of our sites right now where We have that one writer but she writes a Lot And she’s good and we’re really happy With her but it’s like it’s a huge Single point of failure like if she Quits or if she gets away From it sucks it’s like i don’t want to Deal with it because I built that editorial it’s super nice And it’s like it’s one of these sites Where it’s like we’re not investing a Ton but we have just just the one thing We’re not trying to grow A ton just like linear growth basically And um
That’s part of the mistake because you Wouldn’t actually struggle as much as You think you would All right because all of the all of the Time and effort you’ve put into Getting her to where she is right now is Not only learning for her but it was Learning for For us as well and how we want content That was like a back and forth process And now we have a really clear idea of Exactly what we want on that website And so to bring someone else in and have Them do it yes it’ll take some time Yes there’ll be a lot of uh feedback and And rounds of revision For the first few weeks for the first Month but i i mean i’m very confident That that’s like A replaceable person within you know two Months say Um but that is when you lose time you Lose time yeah and if it happens at the Wrong time when you know One of your other sites get penalized And you know you’re having a baby and You know Something else happens in life and Pandemic and all this stuff It’s just like one of those things it Can if it happens at the wrong time it Can Really hit you in like a not so nice way So i guess just push back right it’s
Like you just deal with the emergency Stuff and you just never replace that Person i mean it’s okay to put your site On standby for a bit It’s kind of a nice part of this Business yeah this business model by the Way it’s like Uh like we we’ve led some sites in Standby for six months a year or Something and came back to creating Content for them and You know stuff started ranking so it’s Like you can do that But yeah for me it’s like i hate hiring People so it’s definitely the The it would be the biggest blowback for Me actually out of all of these the rest Even the google penalties etc like it’s Kind of it’s kind of fun to like work on These et cetera but Uh yeah like if you have good stuff and Also If you have good stuff that’s working Really well for you etc Like max them out if you can because you Never know when you’re gonna Lose them and how much of a pain it’s Gonna be and how much how long you will Be without being able to create content If you’re busy et cetera so i would say Like I don’t have the same aversion to hiring People as As gail gail does i mean we’ve had a lot
Of bad hires that’s why i don’t do it In the past so i think maybe that Experience has jetted you slightly But our hiring processes our standards These days are really good and like i’m Very happy with like the the results is Producing across all All our sites i’m just talking if i was Writing that whole thing i mean you you Hired that writer And then i trained her and then got her Up to stevie basically And it’s like yeah it’s been good Yeah i and if you guys uh are members of Authority hacker pro check out that Blueprint on building your Editorial team i break down our hiring Process of step-by-step Um so if you have an aversion to hiring Writers and editors and all that then Just watch that and it’ll it’ll help you Master planning Yeah let’s talk about the next point uh And the next point is Pr nightmare um so these things they Will not happen if you’re a small Website if they only happen when you Start Gaining some size so you can see we’re Going from like the points where you’re Like a tiny website that doesn’t even Exist too Bigger and bigger pr nightmare is Essentially you’re accused of something
Uh and like there’s some controversy Around you and It can cause some issues like even like You know if you get listed on like some Scam databases and things like that Google uses that as a ranking signal as Well it could actually eventually cost You Your rankings it could cost you a lot of Stuff etc actually a pr nightmare Like i’ll give an example it happened to One of our pro members who found Like he was found copying content from His computer i was actually surprised This ranked because Some stuff was quite literally copy and Pasted parts of the article And other parts were kind of like spun Rewritten Um but it would just be the exact same Type of article it’s in a pretty Creative niche so It’s something that the content creators Didn’t take lightly Just to point out it wasn’t this guy it Was like a writer who did it And i was like this editorial process Wasn’t in place to check it Yeah so that’s what i was to say but Like that’s what was found basically and It was a A lot of outrage like you know it’s like It was outed and there’s like hundreds Of comments on the blog post where it
Was out there et cetera and like A lot of angry people and so on but yeah It was he was in autopilot mode that’s What happened he was in autopilot mode And he didn’t check the content Uh that was coming out from his Editorial team and he is into a team I think he was putting quite a bit of Pressure on them to like output a lot of Content And as a result well they found a way to Go quicker which is kind of like copying Exactly what the competition is doing a Little bit too much you know it’s like There’s really a fine line between like Copy and pasting And doing a bit of your own version of What someone else has done so it’s also Like with with writers there is this General tendency to do a really good job At the start and then as You take your eye kind of like off them The The quality and the effort will start to Sort of deteriorate and decline I just i think there’s this thing when You work on with a website for a lot From a writer’s perspective it starts Getting less interesting and more Repetitive you know You for your 150th best x for y article Or roundup review uh of like generally The same thing It does get a bit dull after a while so
I can See why those things happen you know Especially with writers you’ve been Working with for a long time and aren’t Paying close attention to But nevertheless when they do happen you Still have to deal with them right Yeah i think it’s especially hard for Writers because you know the way we Build sites is like when a hub is doing Well we just max it out we just like Order like 50 articles on the same Template and The same keyword root basically you know It’s like Whatever like we found some criterias Like i don’t know best I don’t know like best electronic Paintball guns and then there’s like Best electronic Sniper paintball gun best electronic uh Like Uh shotgun paintball or something like This like and i will just find all of These And we’ll just order like 50 of these if Possible So for the writers i guess it can be Tedious And i think it causes a lot of churn as Well for writers like some writers just Get less interested Content gets bad doesn’t go well with The writer and then it’s like
Eventually you end up not working with Them but anyway to go back to pr Nightmare I think it’s like it’s it’s the Autopilot mode that’s when you get into This mode where you just Try to create a lot of this content at Scale and eventually quality sleeps but You’re busy with something else so you Don’t really check the content anymore Because you’ve trained these writers And you get caught either in a pr Nightmare Or with a google like the argo update Basically it’s like you know like this This can this can happen And they’re essentially the same causes Which is the quality of your content has Slipped so you need to be Quite careful how would you deal with a Pr nightmare uh So it really depends on whether it’s Your fault or not I think that generally my view is that You should Try and come at this from an unbiased Perspective So like come clean like hey this is What’s happened this is what happened Here is the various factors that led to It here are the Bad decisions here for the consequences Here’s all the information So you know put that on the table um
Apologize for that saying you know Obviously that’s a mistake We didn’t mean for that to happen or Whatever and then Implement some kind of way of rectifying That and then Explain what you’ve done so that it’s Not going to happen again in future And generally people are pretty Understanding in those in those Situations Um there can be so this case though Where Uh and this seems to happen with like um Politics and that a lot if you admit You’ve done something wrong Then more people kind of pile on yeah And it can kind of Snowball and and be a little bit worse Um so there is a school of thought you Say you know just never admit doing Anything wrong Um i think i i don’t think You there’s any absolutes in that i Think sometimes you have to sometimes Maybe not Um but in general trying to be open Honest transparent And actually fix the problem will go a Long way to To towards resolving it and there’s Various other things you can do with Kind of What’s called reputation management and
All these kinds of Things if you really want to get into it Kind of longer term to To to deal with it so so it gets less Visibility at least Yeah most drama goes away eventually Like if it’s it gets Pressed now it’s people are going to Forget about it otherwise there would be No politicians anymore Um anyway anyway let’s jump on to the Next one Which is it’s one that uh has affected Us quite a lot as well it’s essentially Hitting Some kind of glass sitting plateauing on Your site basically And uh and as i explained earlier growth On websites Is really not linear right it’s like You’re gonna have like an increase and You’re just gonna You cannot stable for a while then an Increase depends actually sometimes At the beginning it tends to be like That at the beginning it tends to be Like kind of like this linear growth And as you grow and you get quite big et Cetera then eventually you kind of get More into this plateau mode at least That’s Our experience um and it’s tough Actually like For me i hate the feeling of not
Progressing i Hate that it’s like i don’t care if i Went from ten dollars to To 25 it feels like progress it’s better Than making 25 every month to me even Though it’s less money at the end i know It makes no sense but it’s like That feeling of progression it’s i think It comes from like playing uh Rpgs and like leveling up and that kind Of stuff like I want to feel like the grind like Yields to a level up or i just want to Change the tactic And i’m telling you it’s tough on a lot Of people i think like a lot of people Make good money Enough to have a great life but still End up not happy with their business Because um It’s like they don’t get that feeling of Progression And uh i think it’s like It’s especially more visible for bigger Sites that make more money right because It’s like You know when a size let’s say from the Point you reach like 15 20 k a month something like this on The side If you go to 22k it doesn’t really Change anything like it’s like okay you Increase by 10 Um but usually at that point you have
Enough to run your editorial already you It’s like sure you can grow but it’s not Gonna feel like the massive progression You felt at the beginning you’re not Growing like a hundred percent really Fast anymore et cetera And um and i think for me it’s been uh It’s it’s quite difficult but going back To this thing of like setting smaller Goals Or starting new sections on the site has Been quite good for me Um that’s what i like to do so it’s like When we start on the website Uh i like to be like okay let’s try to Find a new hub i can start and like All the 10 pieces of code and monitor The growth of that hub on its own And then what it does it gives you that Impression that you get at the beginning When you start growing really fast It’s even better because usually you do It on an older site so You know you can rank in like a week a Month whatever etc and if you monitor That hub then you get that feeling of Growth and excitement that you had at The beginning of your website That you don’t necessarily get any more When your site is a little bit bigger so That’s why i like to kind of like Split it et cetera another thing that i Like to do is make a big brainstorming Session
And making a list of things to improve We did it for the podcast for example um We like you know for example the podcast I don’t think there would be a lot in This podcast but we started doing b-roll For example where there’s like actual Visual effects on the Youtube stuff um the way we schedule the Premieres et cetera like all this stuff Was actually a giant lease Timestamp um yeah it was a giant list That i made And we just tried to take one per week And implement it right And that feels like progress eventually So um so it’s a bit of doing this It’s a bit of managing your expectations And understanding that growth is not Linear And that eventually things compounded This one percent improvements eventually Become Quite big and uh yeah that’s basically i Think i think there’s Yeah i think there’s another situation With like the of the glass ceiling Effect and that’s like when the site is Actually doing like Really well like you know millions Multi-million dollar evaluation kind of Level Um and you inevitably get to the point Where the only people above you Are just like really really well run
Sites really well Businesses really large businesses with Huge backgrounds uh Huge back financial backing as well and You know to get from zero to a hundred 000 visitors a month May be relatively easy um Compared to going from 5 million to 10 Million because You’re taking away traffic from those People who are Already doing things really really well They have the best content creators the Best processes Loads of money behind them and breaking Through to the The a-league the championship level is Is very very difficult and i know people Who have sites Uh that are worth multiple millions of Dollars And they just don’t know what to do now They’ve produced Like all the content they can produce They’ve Optimized it as much as they can they’ve Had huge link building campaigns pr Stuff all that going on but they just Can’t get through to this next level And at that point it’s genuinely uh a Good question you know Do you persevere with that or is that Actually a good point to to sell Because the the higher the value the
Higher your site is worth right The in theory the easier it should be The easier it should be to like turn a Few levers and do a few things and then You know make another 500 thousand Dollars because you increased the Traffic by 15 or whatever um But when you get to when you get to the Point where you’re dealing with these These a-list competitors it’s it gets Really difficult Um to yeah their market share Essentially that’s what happened with The site we sold like Uh soon two years ago actually um it’s Like um You know it’s like we reached that point Where we beat all the small sites But reaching to the big sites was like I mean we literally had to abandon a Tory hacker because that niche was this Competitive like it would like we and we Had to open a bunch of other projects as Well Um we didn’t obviously yeah we and that But that that was a good pivotal person Of your point right it was like okay What do we choose we know that our Competitors on the highest level that’s The only thing they do they don’t have Anything else They’re able to focus 100 right and they Have a ton of money because they’re Ranking high for all these very
Lucrative keywords Like really a lot of money um and it’s Like well Do we go 100 on this how do we do this Other thing how do we just take a payday And then just like reset to visit the Clock basically and so Yeah that was also something i don’t Regret actually looking back now And looking at this industry where we Still can’t tell But today we will maybe we’ll do we will Tell but um Yeah looking back now i have no regrets That we did that as well And that’s why this episode is Interesting because there’s actually Points where it Makes sense to pivot away and we’ve done It several times and we gave you several Examples here And you shouldn’t be afraid to do that As well it’s not always you’re not Always a quitter and you shouldn’t like Call yourself out on that it’s all about Strategy and it’s like uh it’s like Sun tzu says pick only battles you can Win or something And it’s a see i have my quotes correct By the way um It’s kind of this and it’s like if you Have a doubt that you might as well just Take the money Like and again i think there’s an
Interesting point as well it’s like There’s two ways to quit right There’s either you can sell your site So you can go on a marketplace from Flipper to empire flippers to f International To many other these days uh or you can i Call it let it glide And letting it glide is basically not Really doing anything just play the Hosting bill And hopefully keep collecting checks Long enough so that you make more money Than if you sold the site And also when you let it glide what you Save is all the time And effort that you have to do to Package your site and sell it and like Talk to sell To talk to buyers etc um the funny thing And i’ll tell that story because it’s Like I’ll tell you how we up and how we Could be a lot richer right now We had that discussion about selling Health ambition about two months Before it crashed and And and mark wanted to sell it and i Convinced him very very hard To not sell it and to actually lay glide So take my advice with a little bit of a Pinch of salt And it shows you how i mean we have made To be to be fair
In your defense um knowing you know Hindsight’s 20 20 right we We now know that that was gonna happen Two two months later but with all the Information we had at the time We didn’t know yet it was probably still The right decision Yeah i it kind of made sense for the Valuations we got et cetera like it’s Like Like it wasn’t like that was one of the Points where we disagree with empire Papers basically we disagreed on Evaluation and so for that reason we Went for that Um but yeah it’s like but that’s Essentially that that It’s interesting to talk about this Because it’s that decision you need to Make it’s like Do i believe my site is essentially Going to Make decent money for another or like Close enough to the money it’s making Now For another well 30 to 35 months Basically and then if you Last longer than that then you you did Better holding your site because You still have the size it’s not even That it’s not even that because like 30 To 35 Months sure but then you still you could Still sell it at the end of the day yeah
Yeah So it’s actually the time you know it’s A lot how long do you also hold A lot less you know when you when you Think of it in those in those terms Um one other thing though i just want to Add around Thinking about whether to start a new Site to pivot to sell all this this kind Of stuff When your site gets to a certain level Like Mid five figures even low five Low to mid five figures and above Definitely into the six figure range a Month Um then you get to this point where in Order to get another site Up to that level is actually a colossal Amount of work And it can often seem as entrepreneurs Like oh yeah let’s start something new That’d be cool we can do this we do this With this But inevitably when you get into it it’s More time it takes more time More effort more money to get those Things off the ground And just because you’ve been working Away you know Earning the same amount of money not not Apparently making progress but still Making good money every month It may actually be better just to
Continue doing that for a little bit Longer Than to actually try and like sell that And then start something new Um depending on on on where you’re at so Just always be careful about Um you know the grass is always greener On the other side That’s the same goes um yeah i think you Get jaded as well it’s like You know it’s like once you’ve hit let’s Say you have a site that hit a hundred Thousand dollars a month Um you’re not gonna be that impressed by Your new site making a thousand dollars A month Yeah it’s like it’s and it hits it like You know it’s a bit over your motivation Compared to someone who achieves that For the first time you know And um and you’ve got to consider i mean It’s great for beginners it means that They essentially like Because of their hunger it gives them A bit of a competitive advantage at Least um Uh yeah it’s true like it’s like when it Happens it’s like yeah it’s like When we start size and they make like They start making okay money et cetera Like because we had size that really Made a lot etc It’s like i’m not great but like i don’t Get nearly as excited
As uh i was for the first few sites that Did quite well you know And so and and yeah it’s it’s something To consider as well it’s like How motivated and especially especially If your bank account is full Um if you you know what i mean if your Bank account is full of money because You sold your site or because you had You’ve been holding onto a site that Makes a lot of money etc Your motivation to work on that on that New side that makes a thousand two Thousand two thousand a month It’s gonna be it’s gonna take a bit of a Dent you know um And it’s something to consider as well It’s that self-motivation thing that we Mentioned as well when You know your site doesn’t make much or Doesn’t change your life that money you Make it’s kind of The same points essentially um yeah That’s all i have to say anything else Anything else you want to add No all right so guys if you enjoyed this Episode don’t forget to subscribe on Either the audio platform so spotify Uh google podcast apple podcast Soundcloud as well etc or if you’re on Youtube don’t forget to also subscribe Click on the bell and uh you know drop Us a comment and tell us what you Thought about this episode
And whether you abandoned the site or Not that’s going to be the question of The week I i didn’t just make it up did you Did you ever abandon a website uh if you Did just let us know in the comments How did it go etc are quite interested We tend to have good discussions in the Comments on youtube so I’m interested to hear how it went for You thank you for listening and we’ll See you next week [Music] You