Sleep Niche Deep Dive: Dream Or Nightmare?

Sleep is one of the more competitive Niches out there and with good reason There’s an absolute ton of money to be Made with many sites doing an amazing Job especially with their affiliate Content regardless of what Niche you are In every single site owner can learn a Ton from the sites at the top of this Niche so in today’s episode we’ll be Doing a deep dive of the Sleep Niche Breaking down exactly how the sights at The top got there and we’ll also take a Look at some of the behind the scenes Shady goings on in that Niche that make It especially interesting Foreign Welcome to the Atari Haka podcast in This week’s episode we are going to be Talking about the Sleep industry and we Have done that for the VPN industry in The past and what I find interesting in This kind of podcast is we are able to Dive deep in the newspaper even if You’re not working in that Niche we’re Able to uncover strategies tactics that People are using in some of the most Competitive affiliate niches that you Can then import into your industry and Have a competitive Advantage so we’re Doing all that work for you all you need To do is gravity grab some popcorn and Just watch the episode and then all the Analysis is done for you that’s pretty Much the concept so even if you’re not

In a step industry don’t you know you’re Gonna get some interesting insights here Especially about eat about page layouts For reviews Etc I think there was some Really interesting stuff in there but Before we get started obviously uh Mark How’s it going it’s going good but I’m Just you know looking over my shoulder In case the Sleep Mafia send out a Hitman to to get us after publishing This Yeah so they had a joke about the Sleep Knife here because it it does feel a Little bit like a mafia like do you want To like tell what happened why we think That and also why we picked the Sleep Industry like it doesn’t seem to be like You know if I go and tell people what do You think is a very competitive industry I don’t think sleep and mattresses would Come in people’s mind first so why would It be such an interesting Niche well I Think first and foremost is because the Amount of commission available for Affiliates so if you think of any Industry out there that sells that Regularly sells products for four Figures or more there aren’t really very Many of them out there where most of the Transactions are done online or at least A lot of them are and where every single Person in the world kind of needs to Have one as most people will sleep on a Mattress so there’s a lot of them to be

Sold most people spend a lot of time on A mattress so they they want a good one And they’re prepared to to pay good good Money for it so yeah a lot of money to Be made as an affiliate which is you Know causing a lot of the competition And Mafia like tendencies that that we See there was an interesting case why Mafia like do you need to contextualize That a bit there is an interesting case A while back uh there’s an article in Fast Company about the the site called Sleepopolis and the title of the article Was the war to sell you a mattress and It gave a really interesting insight Into the Cutthroat nature of what’s Going on behind the scenes in the Affiliate game in the Sleep industry This is going back five six years but it Remains today a very very competitive Space basically what happened was Sleepopolis was run by a guy called Derek Hales and he was an affiliate a Site owner like many of us and he ended Up getting sued by Casper which many of You have heard of one of the biggest Mattress companies in the U.S it’s also A very friendly ghost in my childhood But yeah And if you Google Casper actually that’s Uh Friendly Ghost but it’s nothing to do With this episode of the final guess I Can assure you so to cut a long story

Short uh he was sued and there was some Sort of controversy of uh which mattress Companies he was like promoting ahead of Others and there was like behind the Scenes deals like they were paying Allegedly paying him to promote other Programs above theirs and cast pursued And there were some technicalities but Long story short is he kind of did a few Stuff or a few things wrong Um but it wasn’t that bad Um however because Casper had millions Of dollars to throw at the lawsuit and He couldn’t really fight it Um properly it was 700 a dollar an hour Lawyers he ended up losing his entire Business like he lost the site he had to Give the site to Casper and Casper Turned around and when we did a podcast On this a few years ago I looked at the Sleepopolis and they were just Recommending Casper all over their site In a pretty obvious kind of way which Was a little strange isn’t that wrong in Itself as well like it’s like oh yeah That’s why that’s why we came up with The terms of sleep sleep Mafia that’s That’s why they love they got this side Because the the owner did something Wrong and I’m not I’m not like how does The FTC react if a company owns the Unified site and then just like it’s Unfairly because of its own Services It’s not really that like it’s not

Really the case that the owner oh didn’t Have his FTC disclosure obvious enough So therefore you know it just does just Give the sight to the biggest uh Competitor Um it was it was basically they Strong-armed him into doing that using Their expensive team of corporate Lawyers and and and just basically made Him unable to to fight the the suit and Therefore Um he he lost and he had to to give up The site Um anyway fast forward to today and I as We’re researching this podcast Sleepopolis appears to be owned by a Company called pillar 4. which I hadn’t Heard of as an entity although I’d heard Of all of the brands that are listed on Their their site and there are five Mattress companies mattress advisors Sleepopolis mattress Clarity mattress Nerd and sleep advisor these guys own Five big sites in the mattress niches uh Did you check the traffic for them Sleepopolis alone gets 1.4 million Monthly visits now and it’s been been Going up solidly over the last couple Years Uh they also which is really interesting There’s another site we’ve talked about On this podcast before and a site I Really really like uh so pillar four own Garage

Gymreviews.com which is a site and a Pretty pretty good YouTube channel Um that really took off during the Pandemic for for obvious reasons but all Of their sites are actually really well Built really good content and yeah it’s Quite interesting to see that they’re They’re kind of cornering this Niche uh So to speak so that’s kind of where it’s A bit of a joke but that’s kind of where Like the mafia terminology Um came from and and this they are a Legit business though I can assure you That’s who you’re gonna get you know These people sue people just be a little Careful please um but uh one thing I Will say which I don’t know is I don’t Know so my understanding was that Casper Then owned sleepopolis but I don’t know If they since sold it to pillar 4 or Casper has some kind of ownership or Vested interesting I have no idea on on On that fat I don’t know what the Connection is we should check them so You know when domains change ownership There has to be inward registrars have a History of that so it’s like that’s Where you would find if there’s no Change then it’s probably still owned by The same company it’s funny because you Talk about Mafia and it’s like um it’s Like I found a rival gank basically uh Which is the company that owns Sleepfoundation.org which I would argue

Is probably the best put together Affiliate site in this Niche so if you Want a good example of a great affiliate Site go check pcfoundation.org they are 88 and again 6 million estimated traffic According to air traffic so that’s a lot Of traffic especially Indonesia is one Of the highest paying affiliate Niche so I think that is rivaling sites like VPN Mentor that you know sold for over 100 Million Etc I think that is in the same Ballpark yeah um it’s quite interesting Because that’s in a in a very ymyl Niche Uh your manure your life so we’ll talk About e80 in this podcast look at how They implemented that what these sites Have changed Etc because I think that’s Interesting but yeah this uh this Company essentially the the Rival Mafia Is called onecare.com uh and they own Sleep Foundation where they also own for Example the sleep doctor which is Another big site uh that is the r80 and Has 221k estimated traffic they own Testing.com which also is like kind of Like a house testing site as well so They stay in the house Niche and they Also have a lot of like smaller sites They’re growing Telehealth online Therapy on the inductor Medicare plans So they have like they’re they’re also a Big growing thing and I think it’s Interesting because we see in these big Affiliate niches that consolidation

Happening you know these kind of like Media companies forming buying their Competitors and then most of the subs Are owned by like three four five Companies Um and uh and and that is another good Example of that which is why I don’t Necessarily I Advent like tell people You should start a steep Niche related Type but I think you should take some of The tactics these guys have been doing To get so big and import them in less Competitive niches that’s why you get a Bit of a competitive Advantage okay this Is definitely one of those cases where It’s like very easy to buy a mattress or Test a mattress and just you know write A blog post on it given your thoughts But the we’ll see later in the show that The length and the extent that these Sites go to to actually measure Different variables and the testing they Put it through is is really really Advanced and and better than anything For certainly a physical product I’ve Seen for for almost any affiliate site Out there They have thermal cameras Etc like it’s Quite um it’s quite cool actually uh Okay anything else we want to say about The industry I know just well just as I’ve been Growing fast uh over like the last of Nine years or so

Um as this kind of mattress in a box Phenomenon took off you can buy you can Buy a mattress online get it shipped try It for up to 100 days for free and send It back if you if you don’t like it so People are kind of getting used to Buying these things online and all of The companies that create these Mattresses uh Casper and as many others Out there they all all have started Doing sheets and pillows and other Things too so it’s really really big Industry Yeah if you look at the Google Trend as Well mattress as a topic is definitely a Growing topic like if you compare to Like Uh 2016 were basically uh 33 bigger as An industry in terms of online searches Um so it’s quite significant I would say Um and so I would say yeah it’s uh it’s Something that is a growing Market Although it has peaked actually in 2020 And it’s gone down a little bit since Then Expected by just in the pandemic you Know all the stores were closed so you Just bought a mattress online if you Needed a new one so it’s maybe like an Unexpected Peak but Um yeah yeah I think people invested in Their beds when they stayed at home as Well yeah if they were staying all the Time okay uh should we talk about the

Affiliate office because like I think When we talk about a niche it’s Important to say how you monetize how Much money you can make Etc yeah so Obviously mattresses themselves are huge Here now they only pay somewhere in the Region of five to ten sometimes 12 Starting commission though I would not Be surprised at all if that number went Much much higher with all the behind the Scenes deals that are undoubtedly going On Um in in this space I know that’s not a Huge amount especially if you compare to Something like VPN which if you remember In our podcast we talked about them Paying over a hundred percent commission For the first month of the the VPN but That was like a 10 15 product this these Products are usually starting so 500 Plus going into several thousands of Dollars and it’s somewhat rare to see Such expensive products sold at such a Scale entirely online and I think Represents a really good opportunity for Affiliates and this is why we’re seeing Such big competition in this in this Space Yeah I would not be surprised if an Affiliate made two three hundred dollars For like a thousand thousand two hundred Dollar mattress so yeah and they’re They’re sort of using all the the online Marketing the the website sales tricks

With funnels and all sorts of stuff to To bundle things together so it’s not Only the mattress right you you buy the Pillows and the sheets and the mattress Topper and all the other stuff that go Along with it I I recently partook in This so I bought a a pillow from uh us One of these sort of online sleep Companies uh really good a really big Fan of the the the pillows by company in The UK called Eve sleep and I looked at A bunch of reviews Um on on Reddit and uh various places And found this was the one that kind of Matched what I was looking for Interesting I went for the reviews Already though no I’m not on Google yeah Because I mean why is that you can’t Really think what these people are Saying and their their reviews okay so Anyway I bought bought it as as I was Buying it was 59 pounds here in the UK And there was an upsell page uh where They up sold me a pillow protector for An extra 15 pounds so they’re knocking On like what 20 25 extra revenue from That which I thought was really Interesting and honestly a good Investment advice I did yeah yeah Um But this this this whole like extra like Pillow sheets thing gets a bit crazy I’ve seen examples and I get a bit judgy On this stuff but there was a CBD

Infused pillow supposedly helps you Sleep better now I’m no expert on that But that sounds a bit off to me uh but It just gives you an idea of of kind of What else is is out there now those are Smoking their pillow somewhere just uh Those are those are physical products we Also have Courses and info products based on Getting better sleep uh either for Yourself Pardon they sell that in the funnel no No that’s that’s a different different Company I’m talking about different set Of products okay uh uh so there are Companies out there that offer sleep Sleep programs either for yourself Or which is very very common for a baby Now if you know anyone who has kids uh They’re probably slightly sleep deprived Or at least they were in the early days So it’s understandable that parents new Parents are willing to spend 47 to 127 Dollars I think it was on a course to Help to put their baby to sleep and get Better they should buy the CBT kilo well I’m not too sure about that uh these These uh digital products so the courses Have much higher commissions we’re Talking 35 something like that starting From Um but obviously the price point is is Lower compared to to the mattress Um

Yeah yeah although the volume of demand I think you’d be surprised on the amount Of people who who are looking for any Kind of help to to sleep better because Yeah many of these sleep sites which We’ll get into a little bit later they Have big teams of you know experts Doctors and all sorts of people and There are many people in there who are Sleep Experts who have books or some Kind of product Um where they they kind of help help People to sleep like a course basically Uh so that’s the kind of course side of Things and there’s also another area Which is is much smaller but also very Popular Um and that is sleep while you travel so You we’ve all been to a an airport and Seen these stores selling the neck Pillows so you can sleep on the plane They’re very common and they sell for They sell very well on Amazon and on Um you know other other sites there’s a Company as well that does sleep masks I’m a big fan of them it’s called Manta Sleep uh which they basically designed a Placement And no it’s not like um we we know the The guy Mark who who runs it um he’s He’s in the DC Um but he gave me one of the the Prototypes like many many years ago and It’s it’s just designed really well so

You can like sleep on your side with the Mask on and it’s total Blackness and Yeah I’m not going to promote this too So there’s lots of products basically There’s lots of products basically to to And you could go into supplements as Well and you can go into like there’s Many many other things you could look at To be honest for sure um so it’s like It’s a it’s a product with Niche with Lots of high paying products and what You said earlier about you know you Wouldn’t necessarily recommend this as a Niche to go in if you’re starting out And that’s that’s true because it’s so Competitive but because it’s so big and There’s it’s not just mattresses you Could possibly specialize or find you Know slightly lower competition areas Where you could make a start and stand a Chance to to make some money at least I Have an example later on the site of a Not too high Authority side that Sidestepped the nation is slowly Building authority to hopefully one day Compete on the actual big mattress Keywords uh so yeah I I think that’s how It would go as well like I would I would Sidestep this I’d be like you know we Try to rank for like best supplements For sleep or whatever like how much does Magnesium help with sleep like these Kind of keywords so you can kind of like Make some sales but eventually walk your

Way up to the level of authority needed To compete on these mattress sites and It’s a very high level as we’re going to See in a minute Um and and so like it is possible where It’s a really long term play and I think I would still not recommend someone’s First Sight to be in this Niche I would Still like especially because as I said You’re touching ymyl you’re touching the Area where Google is going to shuffle Subs a lot when I do updates and so on Uh and so you expose yourself to these Big drops in traffic or whatever if you Fall on the wrong side of the update Which happens to a lot of people I would add to that though that if you Are starting out then I think this is a Fantastic Niche to look at to get Inspiration yeah yeah to learn possible Because yeah there’s a lot of sites Doing almost everything right And that’s the thing is like if I want Like when I want to understand these Core updates for example I’m looking for Like not too high authorities I still Thriving in that Niche for example I’m Like okay what are these guys doing what Is interesting and it’s like I have like Some stuff I want to share later like so You know the r60 sites that are doing Quite well for example and so on in this Niche and that tells me like given how Harsh Google has been in these uh

Verticals like what is Google looking For you know if these sites are like low Authority and still doing well like that That is it uh anyway let’s just jump Into the Meetup things and let’s talk About and that is still your section on The Sleep sub analysis Uh yeah so we took a an example of a Keyword best mattress it’s a KD 70 so It’s very high competition keyword uh 72k volume per month 146k traffic Potential according to to ahrefs and we Just wanted to have an initial look at Kind of who’s ranking to to see what Kind of sites are are up there number One was sleep Foundation the site we Talked about uh earlier and we’ll go Into in a little bit more more detail But they’re basically a dr-88 site they Have was it six point something million Traffic he said just incredible Incredible especially considering they Seem to have been founded in sort of 2018 so it’s still relatively new site Obviously had a lot of money put it put Into it a lot yes Um big big team big team of experts and Just really just really well put Together it’s a really good textbook Affiliate site and people should check It out it’s a dedicated sleep site and Interestingly it was one of the only Sleep sites ranking number one for this Ranking on page one for this keyword

Other sites included the wire cutter New York Times which you know it’s a general Review site they they review mattresses I I get why it’s there Tom’s guide which is you know you Associate that is more technology site But it seems to have branched out into Doing mattress reviews as well they do Everything like they’re just a review Site now what was most interesting for Me though is Um number seven usnews.com okay you know Newspaper number eight Sfgates.com oh my friends where have we Heard that name oh Um if you’re surprisingly a regular Listener of this podcast uh and if you Go or if you’re not you can go back a Few episodes and listen to the one we Did on parasite SEO Which to give a quick summary is where a High Authority site like a newspaper Will sell an advertorial which is Basically you can write anything you Want on a page I know it’ll go on An ad is an article and so someone has Done that uh for SFGate they’ve they’ve Bought this and they rank on number Eight for best mattress which I think is A huge win for whoever did that so hats Off to you and they it looks like They’ve gotten a chiropractor to write What looks like a decent enough article I mean it’s not to the standard of uh

Any of the other big mattress sites but It looks you know presentable enough Yeah it wouldn’t look out of place in in Most niches and they are undoubtedly Making some pretty good commissions from From that but I just found it Interesting that we’re still seeing Examples of that that going on and Especially in one of the most Competitive keywords for for Affiliates There there are out Um so yeah that’s kind of just an Overview of what we’re seeing in the in The serp Yeah I mean I think it’s it basically Shows that and I think we’ve saw the Same in the VPN as well specialized Sites for the top top top keywords they Don’t show as much as generic sites Anymore yeah like it’s all like it’s Like look there’s like C Foundation Which is like a really well put together Uh site they are 88 as well like it’s Not exactly easy to reach and that’s it Like everyone else is not a sleep Specialist Um but that is really the top level Keyword when you go down into more like Uh granular keywords which honestly most Of the money is not made on best Mattress keyword it’s made on a longer Tail keyword like best mattress for side Sleeper best mattress for this Etc And in that case you’ll find more

Especially so I actually looked at some Of them Um so the thing is like the top level Keywords are like very very difficult to Rank for so I Google best memory foam Mattress for example and C Foundation Number one still like they’re really Killing it and then after that yeah Again you have thumbs guide you have us News you have then you start having some Lower ones like mattress Clarity which Is the r68 this is one of those I zoomed In but right after you get back into Forbes New York Times tech radar take Radar what the hell like Um CNET and then after that sleepover Police and and uh and Mattress notes for Example so it’s like these big keywords Are like Honestly the the you’ll see some special Eyesight but like if I look at the top There’s like three or four maximum Ranking for that so it’s like that’s not Where you can really find an opening and Even the size that are in there they’re Really well put together but then I was Trying to go more long term I was like Okay if I actually was building one of These sites can I find keywords that I Can rank for and I found best mattress For side sleepers with hip pain uh 600 Search volume by the way Um so no not too bad Um super police is still on top still

Foundation is still here but like it’s Their hip pain pages that are ranking uh Number one so it’s like not side sleeper Whiskey pain you know they don’t Actually address the search intent so I Think you might have a chance and then After that you scroll down and there’s a There’s like a yeah 61 ranking also with The hip pain keyword there’s some dr67s Etc so not exactly brand new websites Um but sites with level of authorities That are reachable for people listening To these podcasts and that’s what I was Looking for even 75 is original people So that worked quite well same I found Best guess room mattress which is an Interesting one and number one is the R68 for example I only have like 33 Linking so it’s not it’s not insane it’s And it’s this is the dr30 on the on the First page with the dl2 except with a Two Link in your domain sorry so that’s Interesting and like it’s a very Interesting keyword because best guess From mattress is like okay how do I get A mattress so people won’t judge me but And sleep good enough but don’t spend Too much money you know they’re buying Consideration is a little different than Like a mattress that you would buy for Yourself Um and so like I found interesting and And there are keywords uh you know you Could start ranking for and you know

This dr30 size they’re getting two 300 Traffic according to ahrefs and I think They could make some okay sales if you Find like 50 kilos like that you might Have the beginning of an okay affiliate Site where you can actually make some Money right so that gives you an idea of Like the landscape of the keywords You’re gonna need to go very long tail If you want to do well so one I was Doing these keywords I found a site that I think was kind of Representative of What people would be able to build if They were going after that Niche and That was my slumber.com Dr67 with 357k traffic so a very good Um overall like I think it’s um it’s a Good example of a site that has not too High Authority but has done well with SEO so I wanted to look at what they’re Doing so I went into the top pages in Ahrefs what I found is that most of the Top pages that are you know said to Drive lots of traffic to the site are Info content right it’s uh keywords like How to get blood out of a mattress 24 000 or how to sleep eight hours in four Hours apparently that’s the key word Um and uh 9.8 000 Etc so like most of These were info keyword what was Interesting if you open the pages is you Will see that they have a massive quiz Widget above the content that basically Invites you to answer nine questions to

Find your best Metroid so as you click Through you know you click like you know Like how heavy are you uh do you have Back pain Etc do you prefer foam or do You prefer latex things like that and Then they try to capture your email but You don’t have to do that and when it Actually does that you actually end up Getting a massive table of like five Recommendations one two three four five Yeah five recommendations with coupons That try to sell you something so they Try to monetize the info content quite Well and It’s an interesting thing it’s like you Know these low Dr sites that are doing Well there’s not that many in this Nation so like it was interesting to see How much info content they’re putting in On their site and like uh they’re really Covering their topic and answering lots Of questions related to the niche Basically but they’re after that their Monetization they’re kind of like Dodging around the big guys right They’re doing vs so they have 304 vs Pages on the site that drives a total of 23k traffic according to waitress which Is it doesn’t sound like a lot but vs Pages are good for conversions uh and They are managing to rank number one for A lot of them because these big size Don’t necessarily make all the Combinations of yes I guess uh they have

Um they still do around the previews and The thing is like ahrefs I thought was a Bit of today is the day where the Google Is rolling out the product review update So I’m not sure like how out of sync Address was but like a lot of keywords They were giving me 100k traffic for Um For for like Roundup reviews but to be Honest when I was checking some of them I didn’t see them so I was checking like Best mattress for back pain like atres Was like oh yeah they have the fidget Spinner I didn’t see them on page one so My guess is it’s it’s a bit lower than That and HS was a bit off on that but They seem to do okay on roundups but on The small ones on the kind of like long Tail ones that I told you about and then They do also like single reviews and Single reviews tend to be a little bit Less difficult as well on that so that’s Pretty much the business model here they Built lots of info content they kind of Cover like how to clean uh how to sleep Better what temperature you should sleep In like things like that And then they go for this tiny Monetizable keywords and they have this Massive monetization widget above the Info content and that’s how the site That is reachable for most people Manages to make pretty good money uh I Would guess I can’t tell exactly how

Much they’re making because it’s really Hard to tell how much they make from the Info content widget Um but I would say it’s a it’s a Successful site and that’s a site that I Would be looking at uh so that’s pretty Much what I looked at in terms of like Keywords and how you would be able to go Around it lots of info keyword and then Easier long tail variations of stuff do You think after that do you think the Quiz that they they have on there is a Way of kind of like focusing uh people Towards a specific area of like what What it’s for people to not um is to Divert them right it’s like people are Looking for an info for information like For example how to get blood out of the Mattress right Um the answer might be well it’s kind of Hard it’s like I don’t know I didn’t Check um but like you might not be able To To uh maybe I’ll test I’ll tell you next Time but uh like yeah it’s not um it’s Not necessarily easy uh to do and so Like it can you can divert people to Like buying a new mattress for example Uh and so like these widgets uh are here For that and so like I think they just Try to distract you the same way ads are Here to distract you to click on them Um so yeah that’s uh I think that and I Think they must be selling them and the

Thing as well is like people do this Quiz and they’re like oh okay that Mattress looks cool uh and then they Check it out but then they enter the Retargeting of the seller which means That uh they’re gonna start seeing ads For like 30 60 days about that mattress They just checked out through that quiz And then you know that some people like People buy from that I mean we run Retargeting for what we do Etc we know Exactly how this works people buy Um so I think that’s kind of what They’re doing here and um I think the the volume of info content They have is a mix of like gaining Topical Authority and actually having Some level of conversions through these Kind of widgets Uh I know we’re all just getting links So Um and I wanted to talk about links next Actually The thing is like I was looking for like A really Um a really difficult keyword and so I Google best memory foam mattress and the Number four was a website called Mattress Clarity that is the r68 as well So again like you know idea but Reachable Dr for like people who walk on The site for a few years they can they Can get there and so I was surprised to See the full sight of that low Authority

They only have 55 do follow linking Rudolans it’s not that much uh comparing To VPS for example like the VPN pages Had hundreds of Link hero domains it was A lot more right and so I looked at like The kinds of links that they have so They have links from mattress companies For example so buffy.com links to that Page uh they have a link from a random Car review company that I found called Thedrive.com and literally if you check I mean we put your I don’t care and it Puts position like it just says like I Let me just read the sentence the Julia Which is the card that is reviewed does It in all big-hearted analog position That defies the trends towards soulless Robocars that’s the sentence position Links to a mattress review so that that Brings you for Apparently one of the Highest best monetized keyword in the Affiliate World Um they have link farmings as well like You know how we did if you have listened To our link farming example like I found A dr55 site called tabdreamer.com that You know has all these categories on top You know kind of thing and uh can link For to everything I found uh more link Farmings like I found with dr64 for Example to a site called from a site Called alchilds.net and I’ve found some Dead e-commerce site links as well that Uh from a site called Christine McGee

Comes up overall I was not that Impressed with the links to be honest Especially Um especially given how profitable that Kind of keyword is it’s not amazing but Then I started looking at the internal Links and that’s what there’s like Better work done so like they have home Page links they have links from the Other roundups from widgets that they Put on the site they have uh they took All their High linked blog posts so I Took an example of one that is uh do Cooling gel memory for mattresses really Keep you cool Um so that’s like one of the articles That they have and if you check the Conclusion in the final thoughts they Have a perfect encode links directly Directly back to uh that random preview And that blog post has Uh 36 referring domains so and they have Done that a lot right there’s a a total Of 32 internal links like that Um so it’s pretty well done And I think that it shows that if you Have like high relevancies through that Kind of info content and good internal Linking even for the most competitive Keywords you can actually do quite okay Um without fantastic links to your Monetized page in this case there was You know a few good links like I mean These this car review site was a great

Site this puffy link is a good link but The rest was a bit you know Um and so it was a little bit Interesting to dig into that because While they’re not number one they are Significantly lower Authority than What’s ranking on top and at link volume Didn’t seem as important uh as a Two-page at least as the overall walk The website was doing through internal Linking I think and I think that’s kind Of like my takeaway from this anything You would say about this about the new Building stuff nothing to add Okay Um Let’s talk about the page layouts as Well because I think as I said many Times I think the site sleep Foundation Is probably one of the best put together Affiliate site out there Um it’s very minimalist when you open I Actually took the example of the best Mattress for back pain page that they Have so if you want to check it out go Ahead and then it’s super well done like I’m not going to talk about the 80 stuff E80 stuff on top because you’re kind of Doing this next knock I’m just going to Talk about what elements they have so First of all What is interesting is they don’t have a Comparison table Um instead they just have a list that

Says you know best overall best value Best number support best side sleeper Etc and just the name of the mattress With an affiliate link to it on top so If people just want the best products They can click on them and that’s it and Actually what is it takes you directly To the product it doesn’t scroll you Down on the page which is a debate that A lot of people have with these things But it was quite interesting to see such A big site not having a comparison table Uh the thing that they go after that is Actually they have a video so they run a YouTube channel that is pretty well run Right they show the test they did Etc Which adds lots of credibility but also Increase his time on page which I think Is a big one like a lot of people don’t Want to read it’s a very long article Below uh because it’s a very competitive Keyword and they don’t want to read that So people just watch the video and they Get all that information from that I was Quite interesting to see they put it Essentially they have intro this little Table with the best for x and then they Have the the video and then after that They just jump into the products and They have really really well put Together kind of like summary boxes for The products where they just give you The type the firmness the trial lens so Like how long you can keep it before you

Can send it back the warranty the sizes And essentially pros and cons and then Uh if there’s enough they show you that And just under that they have the Product description that is always Formatted the same way uh and the Product the same that way is first of All they have a bottom line box which is A summary it feels like Google is Rewarding giving the answer fast to the Searchers and so that box is very Interesting because if you read these Three to four lines that are in these Boxes you don’t need to read the long Product description so people can Skip And they get to that information faster And it satisfies essentially user intent Better so having a summary of long Sections seems to be something a lot of Sites are starting to do these days and I would recommend that you look into Doing that and after that it’s always The same is description of what it is Height perform what it’s made of and Then link to the single review of that Product they do that for every product Through that and then they have a Massive buyers guide that starts with a Why you can trust test box I know you Like this Mark Um and they they essentially tell you How they test the mattress but not only Do they do that for each test that they Have they have a link to a page that

Explains how that test runs so they have Kind of like a three-line a three-liner Explaining that test and you click on For example motion isolation uh which You know you know they put some liquid On the mattress and then they just throw A weight on it and then they see if the Liquid just uh falls on the mattress or Not but they just have like a whole page Explaining exactly how they run this Test and like photos Etc just to build That credibility so and it’s quite Interesting because I’m seeing that more And more on websites where they don’t Just have a section on the article Explaining how they are testing things They are making dedicated pages that Very deeply explain how this is run and I feel like if you wanted to tackle into E80 that matters more than for example Auto boxes but you might talk about that Later so I’m not going to go too deep Into that Um And then after that they have their bio Guide and their buyer guide is always Based on questions so like how does back Pain affect sleep which type of mattress Is best for back pain Etc which it feels Like these would be questions you would Find in people also ask questions about What they do after is they they pretty Much write a mini article about each Question so like for example which type

Of mattress is best for back pain they Go for like hybrid and then they Define What is a hybrid mattress then they give You the highlights of that Etc and they Do it for each type of mattress and they Format it in a way that’s like really Scannable and usable so like you know The type of mattress is more bolded Etc You can go through so if you want to see A really long article but really well Formatted I recommend you go and check Out that best mattress for back pain Article because that can give you a lot Of inspiration on how to lay out Information on your site without going Too crazy on putting boxes everywhere I Think they’ve done a good job at that as Well so yeah that’s pretty much Patriot One thing to add to that what do you Think of the design It’s minimalist uh like it’s very light Yeah I don’t like it I mean I I know Like There’s probably that’s probably a good Sign probably great because I I Apparently have a bad eye for design but It just I don’t know it looks looks a Bit I don’t know it doesn’t feel like a put Together brand quite so much Um no it’s very minimalistic it’s quite Nice I mean first of all not having too Many elements is better for page speed Like the more you put on your page

The slower your page is gonna be because You need to load extra CSS you need to Look up that so if they’re also Competing on that and in this kind of Industry they are you know like like Cover vitals probably matters for that Kind of industry uh in in less Competitive ones not so much but in this I think it matters I think they’ve done A good job and what’s interesting is the Use of color right Um so like you can see they basically Use blue and these red for call to Actions and the name of products and That’s all they do and so the use of Color is very smart because Um the only red stuff is just the shop Shop now buttons and like really a few Things here and there and what it does It it takes you to the right direction So I like that it’s not too colorful Um and the problem is that if you read This on mobile there’s so much text on This page that you might end up with Like three screens of text so I feel They could format a little bit bit more Like the the really lengthy text Sections because I feel you could lose People there Um they don’t use exit pop-ups as well Which I think they could make a lot of Money from that But I think with a little bit more Refinement uh it would be quite good I

Just think like they have sections where The text is still very Bland and they Need to watch out for that on small Scripts but other than that I don’t hate It just looking at their affiliate links As well so obviously that they have the Box at the top with the recommendations But in each kind of mini product review The only affiliate link is that red shot Now button so the title yeah and it’s an Argument for like they believe that There shouldn’t be too many feelings I Can tell like it’s one of these these Sites that are like you know if you put Too many affili links we might get hit And that’s interesting because they’re Doing really well right yeah um and so Like you know that’s a debate that’s Been uh talked about a lot in the Community like should we put lots of Effectings on we’ve personally not seen Too much but it could change you know It’s like like from our experience it Wasn’t too bad but like these guys are Also an example of people who don’t put Too much because they’re definitely Careful of how many they put on the page So you know that’s probably 1.4 team Don’t put too many affiliate links here Um and so so yeah it’s it’s they are Conscious of all these scenes and their Design choices are trying to reflect That like how do we get great cover Vitals how do we make sure we don’t look

Too promotional how do we do this Etc And I think they do a good job I would Probably make their buttons a little bit Bigger still as in these shop no buttons Are a little bit small Um and I as I said some areas are a bit Boring and Bland uh other than that I Think it’s pretty pretty good Yeah okay so should we talk about eat Now then yep okay so The way I see it is there’s kind of two Two types of eat there’s eat to show That you’re doing EIT And then there’s eat to actually make Your content and site and information Better and these guys are definitely in The latter Camp as is evidenced by their Their methodology and all the rating System And I’m a big fan of it so to go back to The article you you showed there the Best mattress for for back pain right at The top we see something you see a lot On a lot of sites these days you know Written by Keith Kushner sleep product Expert and then as a second author which Is medically reviewed by uh Jenny EO uh Physical therapist okay makes sense you Want a physical therapist to check out The in the back pain Um review and you know provide some sort Of credibility there there they’ve also Got the the methodology and there’s a Learn more which leads to another page

Which is explore our full methodology And that’s just super interesting Because they’ve got uh a product testing Team and this isn’t their entire Um Team this is just the people who test The products right then there’s nine People in in that and then there’s Photos of their laboratory with all Sorts of Beds being tested and scientific looking Experiments and dummies on the beds and You know this is really like next level Stuff but when you see that you know I Would be and I’m very skeptical about Trusting affiliate sites uh but I I feel Like I would probably trust this this Company Um Because yeah they just do do such a good Job of it they’ve got well how much do You think this is true oh like they went For a photo shoot for one day and then Just put this on the page you know yeah I mean it’s it’s possible Um like what I like about for example Our team right outing is like they show It for every product like you they can’t They can’t it’s much more difficult to Treat this approach feels like you could Literally rent like like you could bring A bunch of into a warehouse for a Day and take a lot of photos and then uh Essentially write that page and you’ll Still be full when you make a

New article whereas yeah I think I I Think while this is good I think sites Like outing is to do it better still They do and that’s probably you know the Most extreme version of of of doing this That I’ve seen on on our teams we talked About that I think last week or two Weeks ago on the the podcast Um but if you go into the individual Review for any of the beds then you do See them you know with the heat gun and Someone lying on the bed on there that That’s not like the full test that it’s Showing it just has like a four stars Okay temperature control and then a Photo of them doing it so it inspire There’s Trust on that page but you don’t Know really to how how much extent They’ve they’ve done this Um analysis for for each one so yeah Maybe maybe you’re right to be a little A little skeptical there but it’s Interesting the factors that they they Consider they look at motion isolation How good the bad is to have sex on Temperature pressure relief I guess That’s off gas well you know It’s something to do with weight and Movement and how easy it is to move Around on on the bed Um the the temperature thing obviously They got that temperature gun and that Just I mean that’s that’s brilliant I Really like that sleeping position

Sleeper weight Edge support ease of yeah Ease of movement Um so You know if I had to rate the the how Far they went with this it’s seen on 8.5 And 9 out of ten I think they’re doing a Really good job of it Um rtings does does better but maybe That’s because uh technology it’s easier As well yeah it’s easier to do things For a mouse or a keyboard than it is for A bed which can be let’s be honest very Very subjective like I’m just thinking This is a difficult problem to solve Like saying which mattress is best Because for you for me for someone who’s A side sleeper a back sleeper a front Sleepers tall shorts hot cold sleeper Like it’s so different and trying to Quantify that and present that in any Kind of meaningful and accurate way is Is very difficult and this is what I I Mean earlier but it’s it’s easy to sit On a bed and write a a Blog review or You know do some research on what other People have written right write a review Of a mattress but to actually have a Data backed approach like like they’ve Done here that’s a difficult thing to do At the scale and quality that that They’ve done and that’s why they need to Have such a big team to do it so to just To add to the the aat stuff though They have on uh their about page

Their team but also a list of experts Who they they employ and I counted There’s 35 different sleep experts on There and they range from medical Researchers at prestigious universities Looking into sleep Behavior to sleep Coaches who have written books and help CEOs and Executives to get better sleep To many many medical doctors Physical therapists you know Evidence-based legit sleep people not None of the the sort of woo-woo stuff in In there and yeah I mean just looking at That page it’s it’s like wow how can you Compete with that if they have uh this This group of people advising them However It doesn’t say how they would advise Them exactly what they’re healthy what They do Now on some pages they have uh like the The one I showed you earlier they they Have Um medically reviewed by so-and-so and That may be one of the the people on There Um so but it doesn’t say exactly how They reviewed it or exactly what what They did they they’re they’re light on Detail Um there to to say the least so I don’t Know maybe all of these people came in Reviewed one or two articles and then They paid them to yeah for the rights to

Have have them all I feel like doctors Are like Pokemon cows right now you know People are trying to collect them all Um to put them on their web page um and It’s like it’s uh it’s I mean I see that On a lot of sites right like lots of big Sites are just starting to do that They’re just putting like as many Doctors as they can on the list so that They can like Do dcat Stuff Etc Um and and am I for Google like it might Work right but it’s hard to tell in Which capacity and how much is actually Contributed by these people to the Content uh it just feels like a reaction To an update and uh and and and frankly That might be the right thing to do if You want to get some organic traffic Um but if I was Google I would not be Satisfied with that I have heard of I was a mastermind and I Have heard of people in the finance Space who who actually have uh you know Review Board of of experts who will look At all the data provided by the the Researchers or the the reviewers and Then kind of make a a final decision Based on that plus other factors plus Their own yeah To yeah impact on that on the the yeah But like the problem is like a lot of These people they probably have very Successful clinics they have like uh They’re not doing it that’s why I was

Thinking do you think for a second you Get 35 of the world’s most prestigious Exactly person doctors across multiple Continents in the same room or even the Same Zoom call uh to just checking on Nothing or to talk about Um yeah an article on uh mattress a Versus mattress B you know and that’s The problem like Um it’s it’s really a big problem Because it just feels like now this is a Pokemon card game you just collect them All on your about page and and then That’s gonna that’s gonna get your eat Up and and yeah it might be enough but Like if I was a search engineer at Google and I saw that I’d already be Working on like how do I address this Because obviously that’s something that Can be gamed again and not only that but Like Why do I like if I was a gray black hat Person which I’m not gonna do but like What’s stopping me from going into like Random hospitals about pages and putting The photos and bios of random doctors On my site Well I mean I think you’d eventually get Found out or you know someone would Report report to them and get back to Them and they’d sue you sure but like They I know but like you you understand like Some random guy in Russia like what is

The risk for him absolutely nothing you Know Um and it’s like it’s not like they’re Gonna go get him like they’re just like Most cases he just changing changes the Doctor for another one and then like What I’m saying is like it’s so gamable And it’s like I don’t think that’s the Solution to you I think like having the Website of the practitioner linking back To the site that uh where he’s listed Would add so much more credibility Because then this you can’t fake Um but like just adding some random Photos and and doctors like I’m still Not convinced that that should be a Factor doesn’t mean it’s not but um I Don’t think in the long run it will be That’s that’s just my opinion one other Interesting thing if you’re uh maybe a Smaller site and you know you get a few Of these people on on board for your to Be your experts is there’s nothing Stopping your competitors from you know Undoubtedly you’re linking to the LinkedIn profile yeah Well and saying you know hey can can you Come and do the same for for me so you Have to be a little bit careful on kind Of how you structure the agreements and What what’s yeah how you work with them Directly so you don’t end up just Building the review board the competitor Is going to come and steal yeah yeah

Yeah I think but like one thing I wanted To highlight in this discussion is I Like these guys are obviously doing all That and if you check the top of the Around the previews as well like there’s Like like oh medically reviewed by this Doctor Etc and the thing is like even if You you’re skeptical on some of this Stuff like I have been uh in the last Five minutes you can’t deny that if all Big sites are doing this which they are Right now Um this is becoming search intent and so By the force of things even if it wasn’t Uh actually the way Google looks at it If sites that are doing well and are Favored by Google are all doing this Then eventually it’s going to become a Requirement to rank for these things to Have these things on your site uh and so While again I’ve press some doubt on how This actually works The fact that pages that have this rank High a lot in your industry Is undoubtedly going to make this Something you’re gonna have to have on Your page whether that’s something Google looks at or not because that is Just a commonality point which pages That Google dims as great pages and so I Think the pr the pr campaign has worked Well for Google yeah and we’re seeing This in more and more Industries and It’s like I think it’s important to

Highlight that because lots of people Like me would ask questions about this But we also have to understand that when The industry takes a turn you’re not Here to like fight it ideologically you Have to rank pages and make money and if You want to do that you’ve got to follow The industry to some extent and I think On that e80 stuff regardless of your Vision of how Google would compute that If a lot of pages in your industry are Starting to look like that you’re gonna Have to also start adopting these things And adjust your websites so I wanted to To highlight that because of how Critical I’ve been to e80 and regardless Of whether Google accounts that it’s Going to start maturing I believe Actually if you you want to do if I Wanted to do the Sleep site I would want To do some of this But I also think that collecting the Pokemon cards on your web page is Probably not going to be a long-term way Of dealing with this like I think you Will need the links back from the Universities where these uh people work Or their practice or something like that To really prove that they’re working With you and that they are editorially Cautioning the content on your site Which I think would add so much more Weight than just putting your photo so Yeah that’s for anything else on the 80.

Uh no All right that was our sleep industry Review I hope that gave you some ideas Of tactics that you can use some pages That you can go and check out and model After when you build your site and if You’re building your sites you probably Should check out our free training on Auto yakotraining.com where we show you Seven tips on starting new sites that Will help you do better with them so we Hope you enjoyed this show don’t forget To like subscribe and we’ll see you next Week Foreign [Music] [Music]